Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 51
02-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
so when did they switch over from the old system to the new system, and what was the reason for doing so? assuming they actually gave a reason, of course
The change happened over a year ago (probably closer to two, but I'm not 100% on that) because if you didn't invest in (multiple) EPS consoles, you eventually got to a point where you drained your weapon power to 0 with sustained firing.

This occured for any energy weapon type, not just DHCs. It basically meant that you had to dedicate at least one, oftentime two, engineering console slots purely to EPS consoles if you wanted to be able to be viable in prolonged engagements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
You don't see them taking any damage at all. What you see is them beating a Galor out of the way; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoIFUJxJwcQ; you see it at around 1:00, the Galor is shooting up the little ships, then the Galaxys move in at set it listing away in just a few shots.

Combat footage from the shows is an unreliable indicator; but the implication here is that the Galaxys were sent in because they were powerful enough to take them, not just tough enough to withstand them.
Poor word choice on my part. The point I was trying to make was that because the primary objective of that battle was not to destroy the Dominion fleet, but to instead get as many ships as possible past the Dominion blockade and within striking range of DS9, the Galaxy's offensive capability (while not unsubstantial) was secondary to it's capacity to redirect fire away from more fragile ships in the allied fleet.

Last edited by stirling191; 02-25-2013 at 09:53 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 52
02-25-2013, 09:48 AM
I've thrown my suggestion out a couple of times, so far some have agreed it's an acceptable solution.

Cruisers gain +100% damage vs escorts, +50% damage vs sci ships
Cruisers gain +50% hull resistance vs Escorts, +25% hull resistance vs sci ships
Cruisers gain nothing when facing another cruiser

Escorts gain +50% damage vs escorts, +25% damage vs sci ships, nothing gained vs cruisers
Escorts gain no new tanking abilities or bonuses

Sci ships gain +100% damage and effectiveness of their science skills vs Escorts, +50% vs cruisers, nothing gained vs other sci ships
Sci ships gain +100% shield resistance vs Escorts, +50% shield resistance vs Cruisers

These numbers can obviously be tweaked to make sure balance is provided. However, these innate ship bonuses leave intact all abilities just as they are with every ship, the only difference is you're now getting a bonus or paying for the ship you're in. These numbers are slightly skewed in favor of both the cruiser and science ships, due to the sheer damage power of the escorts.

Now, this can also be added to PVE as well as PVP. Classifying each opponent as a class of ship, provides them with these bonuses. You can even include special classes like "Borg Cube" with +200% damage vs everything (Numbers may vary) in order to now make their pressure damage more pressured vs people trying to use a single escort against that borg cube.

Is my suggestion perfect? No, but I do believe it to be one of the better ones that takes the least amount of effort and doesn't drastically change skills and abilities but can alter the way the game is played in both PVE and PVP.

Keep in mind also, that these numbers can also be applied to the KDF side, because obviously we can't just leave them out. They can also receive their own version as well that more fits their ships.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.

Last edited by daiouvegeta2; 02-25-2013 at 09:52 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,761
# 53
02-25-2013, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
So you want Cruisers to simultaneously out-DPS escorts, and be more durable?
Some Cruisers could do this easily if STO where a Star Trek simulation.

But sadly, since STO is a MMO i belive they should be more equal, but with different focus on how they deliver Dps.
Escorts should be focussed in single target killing while Cruiser should be great in doing equal AOE dps.


Speaking of durability, i think both should be equal durable, but just like DPS with other means. While Escorts get a high defensive bonus when moving fast, cruisers have to heal and res buff themselves more.

Thats how i would "balance" a Star Trek MMO. But i wouldn't turn cruisers or Escorts into supporters and healers for the other ship type, this is just nonsense in a Star trek game anyway.


Choosing a ship should be personal preference and not depend on what does more damage and everyone else has to fly the boring cruisers. I don't know about you, but for me Star Trek ships are more than just stats and numbers, they represent something and i just refuse to fly a small overpowered excessive gunship. For me that's just not Star Trek anymore. But that's just my personal preference.


Things would be completely different if this where NOT a star Trek game. I could easily live with a game mechanic like we have in STO. But Cryptics Stone/Paper/Scissor mechanic takes away the uniqueness of Star Trek ships IMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 54
02-25-2013, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
In the battles the Defiant was vulnerable, it always had support (which was always exploding) whether it was fighter squadrons, lighter star ships or klingons, something was supposed to be covering them. I'm sure they'd have love to have a cruiser, but we know they just couldn't keep up. Even without its support that ship took some major hits, and always seem to be more operational than any cruiser.

Making an escort as a "glass cannon" would be completely non-canon. We need a game balance, we need to cut down on the ability to chain speed tanking probably. I wouldn't mind seeing APA, APO and APB/APD all on shared cooldowns, that never made sense to me.
The problem here is that escorts (or maybe warships?), like the defaint are not glass cannons in canon, however, they suffer some major drawbacks. No advanced science or medical stations, no large cargo storage, short mission range and a low amount of crew men.

Nothing counts in STO. All what count is damage and healing, thats all.

Do you think the Defaint could have survived as long as the Voyager in deep space? I think not.

Do you think the Defaint could have defend a colony by beaming security troops down? Opps, to few crew men to defend against 500 attackers.

Do you think they could provide maybe at least supplies or rescue refugees? No, too less crew quarters and storage capacity.

Do you think, that the Defaint could have invented transwarp drive with nearly no science stations? I don't think so.

Do you think an high ranked ambassador of an newly discovered civilization would share it's quarter with Worf because of the limited space on board? Hm let me think ... no.

Do you think the Defaint could have help to stop spreading of a disease by inventing new immunizations? "Mr Worf, what do you doing, you destroying our 2x2 m science lab???!" "I kill the virus witrh my Batleth, captain!"

Last edited by xiphenon; 02-25-2013 at 09:58 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
# 55
02-25-2013, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
so when did they switch over from the old system to the new system, and what was the reason for doing so? assuming they actually gave a reason, of course
The reason was people were overly abusing EPS Flow Regulators. It was the ONLY Engi console anyone used.

So they changed the mechanic on energy drain. And they changed EPS Flow Regulators to no longer affect energy replenishment that way.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
# 56
02-25-2013, 09:58 AM
It happened June 3, 2010 btw.

Quote:
Weapon Energy Drain Mechanic Changes

The weapon energy drain mechanic will be changing once this build goes to Holodeck. Weapon Power drain is now instantly refunded at the end of a weapon’s firing cycle, instead of a slow return as was previously implemented. Multiple weapons being fired at the same time will still produce a significant drain and will affect their damage proportionately, but once the weapons stop firing, the weapon power level will immediately return to normal.

This change was primarily inspired by player feedback - specifically on the topic of the energy drain caused by firing multiple bursts of energy weapons. Players may now fire all of their energy weapons repeatedly burst after burst, but the damage for each weapon is still diminished during the firing cycle.

As a result of this change to the energy drain mechanic, the EPS Flow Regulator Station Mods, will no longer have an effect on DPS. They will continue to function to improve power transfer rates between different systems.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,232
# 57
02-25-2013, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
The reason was people were overly abusing EPS Flow Regulators. It was the ONLY Engi console anyone used.

So they changed the mechanic on energy drain. And they changed EPS Flow Regulators to no longer affect energy replenishment that way.
that could've been fixed simply by making it so only one EPS flow regulator had any effect, and any more were just wastes of console space, or even just limiting them to one per ship

i'll never understand why, when faced with a problem that has an easy solution and a convoluted solution, cryptic always picks the convoluted solution, often fixing the immediate problem, but breaking so many other things in the process
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 58
02-25-2013, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Ah, I remember those (awful) times. Funny though that some people still think that weapons work that way.....

Oh and good to see you're back !
Only Internet users deal in absolutes !
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,761
# 59
02-25-2013, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
...
"I kill the virus witrh my Batleth, captain!"


Sorry, for being off topic.
If times wheren't that evil, i would love to have this as my signature.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 252
# 60
02-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlanced View Post
I don't understand this 'escorts are OP thing' my cruiser can do just as much dps as my escort in something like ISE. Heck I regularly come in 1st place in fleet events over escorts. I just fly my escort more because it's more fun to me, but that's my playstyle.
Have you parsed that? I bet it doesnt beat my escort. It might be escorts with silly boff builds and 1 beam array in back and 1 quantum fore and aft. Blech. Comparing a well-built escort to a well-built cruiser, the escort can dish out WAY more damage, and the cruiser should be able to TAKE a lot more damage.

Here's the problem though, absorbing damage is only an asset if you can, you know, actually take the damage. As in, take threat, have things focus you, etc, like a tank does! This means that for one, they need 1) make escorts die in 1, 2 or 3 hits if they are focused by elite packs or bosses without a healer, 2) overhaul threat mechanics, make them predictable and managable. If a cruiser has threat control maxed AND a threat scaling +Th console, then they should have threat, period. And sure maybe theres some AoE to avoid, or whatever other mechanics, but please fix threat. And then the coupdegrace: 3) They need to make queues for STFs enforce the holy trinity, i.e. at least a tank, a healer, and 3 dps, or 2 dps and a cc or whatever. 4) This is more optional but would be nice: NEW STFs where CC and science abilities are made necessary to complete, rather than either useless, or just nice to have around when someone screws up! Oh, and number 0) which I forgot, was that all ships should have roughly equitable turn rates. Turn rate should have zero to do with size, or tankiness, or ability to do damage, make it all the same, and all fun. The tradeoffs should be tankiness versus heals versus damage versus CC. So, equalize all turn rates!
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