Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 62
# 61 Cruisers aren't useless
02-25-2013, 11:04 AM
To be honest... did some pvp last night in my Assault Cruiser Refit. I have a Plasma Beam Aux to Battery build on it and it did quite awesome. Went against 3 Heavy damage escorts(Patrol, Chel Grett, and Kumari) and on my team I had.... a Normal Assault Cruiser(forward facing plasma build) and a fully set up Temporal Destroyer with all the bells and whistles. I found that not only did my Regent do decent but it did quite amazingly with the omni directional damage and Directed Energy Modulation spam. Just saying though 2 cruisers and an escort against 3 escorts(one kumari which is supposedly overpowered) and we won with no issue what-so-ever. Everyone in this 3 v 3 was very well equipped so there were no handicaps either.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,388
# 62
02-25-2013, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadz3 View Post
Just saying though 2 cruisers and an escort against 3 escorts(one kumari which is supposedly overpowered) and we won with no issue what-so-ever. Everyone in this 3 v 3 was very well equipped so there were no handicaps either.
ships and gear do not a match decide...skill does; how were the player's skill levels?
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 63
02-25-2013, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qjunior View Post
Ah, I remember those (awful) times. Funny though that some people still think that weapons work that way.....
Yeah, everytime I see a build that posts using EPS flow regulators I ask if they are switching power modes mid-combat. If they are, ok, makes sense to have the console. If not ...

/sigh

Quote:
Oh and good to see you're back !
It's good to be back. Star Trek is a siren's song that I find hard to resist.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 252
# 64
02-25-2013, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Yeah, everytime I see a build that posts using EPS flow regulators I ask if they are switching power modes mid-combat. If they are, ok, makes sense to have the console. If not ...

/sigh



It's good to be back. Star Trek is a siren's song that I find hard to resist.
Yes, same. Blech.

Do you remember when you had to combine DCs and DHCs because of the firing cycles or some such crap? This was waaaaay back in the first year of STO....maybe even in Beta.
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Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 65
02-25-2013, 01:11 PM
An impossible request I know, but can we NOT turn this into an Escort vs Cruisers thread and try to stay away from a BAs vs DHCs thread? The whole point I made in the very first post was that most Cruiser threads turn into this. And they eventually do what I am already seeing, which is turn into a forum war.

As much as I do enjoy the other aspects of the game (love my fleet defiant and raptor, really I do, as well as my Fleet Recon Science Vessel), could I ask that we get back to Cruisers?

We've already determined that DHCs are wonderfully efficient in damage dealing, and that BAs are terribly INEFFICIENT, and that Escorts are the current god-ships (exaggeration, I know), so let's move on to improving Cruisers and try to avoid those other topics if we can (also probably not possible since so many of those topics are linked together with Cruisers).

Now I stated at the start that the proposed fixes were NOT mine, they were just a general overview of what others had said before. As for what I personally would want for cruisers? All I would really want is for cruisers to:

1) Have some form of passive threat generation so they can actually do their bloody job and TANK in PvE without having to sacrifice skill points and force the player to always tank regardless of ship.

2) Come with an ability that is like a taunt in PvP, so that again, they can draw fire from enemy ships. Something like a forced sensor lock or something like that (put up an idea for that in I think it was Bareel's thread), something that forces player ships to target only that cruiser, or be unable to fire on anything else. Something like that.

Both 1 and 2 are meant to play on the current strengths of cruisers (which aren't needed with current game meta unfortunately).

3) Have significantly greater hull than they currently do. Cruisers are supposed to be hull tanks, but their hull is so close to the other two ship classes that it's not really worth what you lose out in maneuverability.

4) On the topic of maneuverability, I would say a +1.5-2 boost would be fine. Also a slight increase in inertia rating for all of them (maybe a +10-15 increase... why does a more mean less as inertia goes in this game??)

5) Another +10 power. Before you start saying "They already get +20 power, you don't need 10 more", or "+10 MORE power is OP!!!" think about it this way. It would help to define cruiser roles even better in game. For example, offensive cruisers could get another 5 power to weapons and shields, tank cruisers could get another 5 shield power and aux power, support cruisers could get another 5 aux power and engines power.

6) Have a built in drain resist (obviously not as strong as Nadion Inversion, but something, mostly aimed at weapon drain, but could possibly be applied to enemy drain powers as well, adding on to the tank role they already have).

I have a few other changes I would want to see, but of those, they are legitimately overpowered or impossible with current game mechanics.

Now out of the above suggestions, I see mostly 3, 5 and 6 causing arguments. Sooo yeah XD. Oh wells.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 66
02-25-2013, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caelrassto View Post
...And Engineering BO abilities need to be active, contribute to resilience in a meaningful manner, and not trivialized or obsoleted by the DOFF system.
.
There is something to this part at least. Lt CMDR and CMDR engi boff abilities are mostly kinda .. meh. They are mostly utility and its great to get a lt. CMDR slot on anything BUT a cruiser. There really should be something at CMDR level that boosts DPS, maybe some sort of teamwide buff if Cryptic insists on them being support. Or something explosive, big, flashy and cool.

Its easy to see how the higher tier Tac (more dakka!) and Sci (speeze magicks!!) feel cool and have definite visible effects... engi high tier boff powers, not so much.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 659
# 67
02-25-2013, 01:18 PM
There is no point in fixing cruisers (or science) unless there is going to be content that requires the fixed ships rather than requiring that everyone simply bring their escort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
Yes, I get APA is a captain power, but its kinda non-sense to run 2 attack patterns at the same time, isn't it? You can do one or the other in reality. The only problem is if it resets it back to 50% CD it'd be a nightmare, if it could lock out other attack patterns it'd be better.

Sorry, yreodred, I have to ignore pretty much all your posts. You are way too far in cruiser fanboi land to have any credibility.
Attack patterns are nonsense anyway.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ckPatternAlpha

Last edited by tinkerstorm; 02-25-2013 at 01:29 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 68
02-25-2013, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerstorm View Post
Attack patterns are nonsense anyway.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ckPatternAlpha
I fail to see how having a series of predetermined targeting priorities, maneuvering options and combat rules of engagement to streamline command and deployment in the chaos of a fight is nonsense simply because you don't like them.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 82
# 69
02-25-2013, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokersmith1 View Post
An impossible request I know, but can we NOT turn this into an Escort vs Cruisers thread and try to stay away from a BAs vs DHCs thread? The whole point I made in the very first post was that most Cruiser threads turn into this. And they eventually do what I am already seeing, which is turn into a forum war..
I think the problem resolves around whether we want to make all ships more allrounded, like escorts are, or do we want to refine a trinity. I don't think many cruiser captains wish to nerf escorts. I at least don't. Everyone bringing their own survival and dps should be what we want, and what matters is ensuring that each class does so in a unique fashion.

To that manner, making cruisers defined tanks is not what we need to do. Currently defined tanks are rather useless, as there is very need for one with how the game is set up. On top of that the queue system is fast, but only because it operates under the assumption that five people in any ship can use their skills to win, rather than to win you must have a tank and a healer. If you want to emphasize taking damage, adding in more aoes or letting large ships like cubes hit multiple targets is better, as it will promote well rounded builds instead of just moar dps.

The biggest thing we need are fixes to beam drain, whether in the weapon or inherent to cruisers and possibly, possibly, some Tac Beam abilities that are all upside like Cannon Rapid Fire. Cruisers don't need more tank, Escorts don't need to be paper. A pretty thorough look at Engineer abilities would also help cruisers, particularly some powerful abilities at Commander, but fixing Beam drain and Tac abilities should be a first priority.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
# 70
02-25-2013, 04:03 PM
Commander geko mentioned the possible addition of a armor slot if so they will hopefully make a heavy armor for cruisers only.

But i agree in upping hull hp of cruisers because if a cruiser gets such large difference in turn speed to a escort the hull difference should be notable... Considering a few torpedoes in a escort or cruiser end up destroying both with barely if any noticeable difference.

I support innate power drain resistance due to cruiser's larger warp cores... With more power to drain.

fixing the beam arrays would be nice I would like to see dual beams being more viable dps vs dual heavies.. I think making them into kinda the torpedo equivalent of energy weapons would help... think hard hitting but bad sustained damage. maybe due to large power drain or just heavy cool down.

1+ turn rate would be nice or just changing rcs mods to be flat bonuses to inertia and turn rate
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