Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,448
# 111
04-15-2013, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
This is very, very easily abused. 4 griefers team up and start a queue. You come in as the 5th and they all vote to kick you. You're now banned for an hour from public queues. They rinse and repeat.
Who says you would be banned for an hour from public queues? I would be very much against a kick function if that was the case, and if one was implemented I'm sure the existing hour cooldown would have to be taken out.

The idea is to not make it a tool for griefing, if anything, the only form of applied cooldown would be in the form of temporarily banning someone who initiates a vote to kick "too frequently".

I feel that Cryptic doesn't have the confidence in its programming to institute such a feature.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 112
04-15-2013, 08:05 AM
Vote to kick is a bad idea, and I oppose it, even though I absolutely despise people who leech in STFs and PvP.

I've played enough MMOs to know this is a solution that is worse than the problem.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,073
# 113
04-15-2013, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik View Post
Who says you would be banned for an hour from public queues?
Then what would be the point of voting to kick someone? All this is going to do is allow teams of griefers the ability to kick people off teams right before completing an STF just for the fun of it.
Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain. Why is he climbing a mountain? Is he learning to fly?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,448
# 114
04-15-2013, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
Then what would be the point of voting to kick someone? All this is going to do is allow teams of griefers the ability to kick people off teams right before completing an STF just for the fun of it.
Your assuming a lot of existing systems stay the same. I'm not.

Under one scenario, rewards could be tracked based on continued contributions during the extent of the STF. The CE event has shown that this is a path Cryptic is willing to program for. If someone is then kicked from an STF their banked contributions are converted into a proportion of a set scaled reward (say Dilithium and Omega Marks). So they don't just lose the time they have put in. Furthermore, it wouldn't be strange to have the voting system auto-deactivated during bossfights (and until loot roll timers are completed).

The idea shouldn't be for anyone to lose out on due rewards. The idea is to give people the choice not to have their gameplay diminished (or cordoned off) because of others with incompatible playstyles to their own.

As I read the points in opposition of a voting mechanic I try to switch a few words around to see how it reads from a griefer's perspective. Your earlier reply (above) could read like this:

Quote:
All this is going to do is allow teams [...] the ability to kick [griefers] off teams right before completing an STF [as a consequence of their behavior].
I'm being facetious but I'd hope that the opposition is not coming from griefers who fear that a voting mechanic would work too well against their intentions. =)
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*

Last edited by nynik; 04-15-2013 at 09:07 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 115
04-15-2013, 09:20 AM
Allow people to leave missions without a ban. If someone tries to leech everyone can leave without penalty and the leech would not get anything. If that happens a lot the leech would get the message and stop leeching.

A vote to kick can be and will be abused. Anyone who thinks it wont happen is delusional.

No solution is perfect but the way it is now just is not working.

Yesterday I was in Khitomer in Stasis (Elite) with someone who started to leech past the half way point of the mission. He was not helping to destroy the generators when I lowered the shield. I told him to stop leeching and help them. I said to the other players I am sorry but I won't lower the shield to advance the mission if he keeps leeching because I am so sick of all the leeching that I have been seeing lately. I left the room went to the location of the leech stopped in front of him and said it again to make sure he sees that I will not lower the shield to advance the mission unless he stops leeching and helps. He left the mission shortly after. Once he left I went to the room to lower the shield and we advanced and completed the mission.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,448
# 116
04-15-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalericdavid View Post
Allow people to leave missions without a ban. ..... A vote to kick can be and will be abused. Anyone who thinks it wont happen is delusional.
I don't see many (any) people make such a claim. I applaud your efforts at getting the leecher to leave, but you simply shouldn't have to be the gameplay police.

I've been in the same situation as yourself and have sat on leechers as you did, and more often than not, in my experience, the people who it frustrates more are the other 3 active players waiting to continue. They seem to be willing more often than not of capitulating to having one leecher rather than seeing their mission progress stall entirely. If, as a community, we've lowered ourselves to be willing to accept leechers over efforts to remove them I think we deserve them.

As for your first idea, about leaving without a ban. Unless there was a system in place that allowed people to cash in their contributions up to that point then everyone loses out. It shouldn't be about losing out.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,073
# 117
04-15-2013, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik View Post
As I read the points in opposition of a voting mechanic I try to switch a few words around to see how it reads from a griefer's perspective.
Nice try at the troll attempt. The same could be done for anyone looking to have a vote to kick function. Anyone can just as easily say "anyone who wants a vote to kick feature wants it so they can abuse it."
Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain. Why is he climbing a mountain? Is he learning to fly?
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 118
04-15-2013, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik View Post
I don't see many (any) people make such a claim. I applaud your efforts at getting the leecher to leave, but you simply shouldn't have to be the gameplay police.

I've been in the same situation as yourself and have sat on leechers as you did, and more often than not, in my experience, the people who it frustrates more are the other 3 active players waiting to continue. They seem to be willing more often than not of capitulating to having one leecher rather than seeing their mission progress stall entirely. If, as a community, we've lowered ourselves to be willing to accept leechers over efforts to remove them I think we deserve them.

As for your first idea, about leaving without a ban. Unless there was a system in place that allowed people to cash in their contributions up to that point then everyone loses out. It shouldn't be about losing out.
I did not like doing it but I decided to because I was just so pissed off at the moment. I had been in multiple games yesterday with leeches and a few each of the days before. I am just so sick of it. Something needs to be done. I don't want to play with leeches and would like to leave and try to play another mission. Forcing people to either play with leeches or face a ban if you leave is just BS.

Like I said nothing is perfect.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 119
04-15-2013, 09:47 AM
I posted this on another thread as well but wouldent this all go away if there were no leaver penality? If they allowed players to just drop out and queue up for another STF if someone was griefing or AFK would the world end as we know it? Already the game will load you into missions where there are only 3 players and the optional is already failed and you are stuck unless you want to wait for a hour. Or the server farts and you have to reload the game and then you are stuck for an hour as well. If there were no leaver penality then all this would not even be an issue.

Last edited by admgreer; 04-15-2013 at 09:54 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 120
04-15-2013, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admgreer View Post
I posted this on another thread as well but wouldent this all go away if there were no leaver penality? If they allowed players to just drop out and queue up for another STF if someone was griefing or AFK would the world end as we know it.
At best it would reduced the amount of leeching. At worst people who decide to stay would have a harder time completing the mission but that is their choice to stay. I hate being forced to stay with a leecher or face a ban and I know other people hate that choice as well.
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