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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,062
# 91
02-26-2013, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Maybe some good could come out of it if, for example, Feds had separate FvF and FvK reps (would encourage more FvK) and Klingons had separate KvK and FvK resp (would encourage more KvK)
Had wondered if that would be the case, mind you - that it would just be FvK/KvF and not FvF/KvK. Wasn't there some mention somewhere about Battlefront/Warfront/whatever Rep? Short of them meaning they were going to add various NPC missions along the Neutral Zone - kind of took that to mean PvP Rep.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 948
# 92
02-26-2013, 05:15 PM
Did anyone even read my post? I'm feeling ignored here.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,175
# 93
02-26-2013, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I think you have the wrong person. None of my three names are Jenkins, nor do any of my names start with a J.

In the spirit of a fair go I have been playing PvP all this afternoon. There are trends which are becoming apparent. (These are based on observation, not assumption.)

* PvP is ruled by escorts. Yes, there are one or two non-escorts who I've seen do well. One or two over 6 hours.
* Science powers annoy. That's as bad as it's been for me. They don't really hamper you that much.
* Cruisers just don't hit hard enough. Any dent they make in an escort's shield is rendered useless by a quick turn of their ship. That's in the 5 second window where their alternating Tac Team isn't up.
* Escorts seem to tank and tank and tank. I've seen two ships where I couldn't make a dent in their shields after close to a minute of repeated fire and debuffing. Both were escorts. In both matches I was in the top 4 damage dealers. (I parsed the matches.)

These fly in the face of reason and fly in the face of Trek. Call me old fashioned, but I like my Trek games to be a little more Trek. Science should be more than an annoyance. You should see science and be wary. Cruisers should be harder to kill. Escorts should NOT be able to tank.

These imbalances and striving for elitism renders fan favourites like the Galaxy or the Intrepid mostly useless. They're all JHAS, Mobius, Patrol Escorts, Vestas, Odysseys and Andorian ships.
Escorts seeming to tank can easily be explained away by teamwork. How are you certain that no one was sending heals over to that ship while it was being focused?

This has been stated just as many times in the forums: Cruisers aren't supposed to hit as hard as escorts! They are meant to stay alive and do pressure damage, or heal. That's it. Simple. Cruisers are certainly tough to kill.

Sci ships: Based on my own observation, my Sci powers do perfectly fine in softening up targets. So: one observation vs one observation, both probably biased.

The difference you see is simply because of mindset and experience. In the PvE that, as you say, is the majority of the game, Sci debuffers have very little place. Dedicated healers are barely needed. DPS is the name of the game. Because of the mindset that DPS is all due to PvE, few bother to try alternative roles, and even fewer become skilled at it. In essence, what I argue is that the root of escort prevalence in beginner PvP is PvE.

Also, based on your reasoning:

Because PvP is, according to you, ruled by escorts, PvP is broken.
Hence, PvP reputation should not be implemented.

I hope I got your reasoning right, as, by the same chain of thought,

High-level PvE is ruled by escorts in the form of DPS. Few argue with this.
Following the same path, hence, PvE is broken.
Following the same path, hence, PvE reputation should not be implemented.

Since your reasoning can be easily applied to PvE as well, I would say that this argument of yours is flawed.
PvP-ready toons: Ishmael - Betazoid Sci - Vesta - U.S.S. Yukikaze - The unsinkable destroyer - T'Scurr - Romulan Tac - Mogai - I.R.W. Archer - Countervape overwatch - Ffairl - Romulan Sci - T'Varo - R.R.W. Yuudachi - The nightmare of Solomon

Take it easy!

Last edited by scurry5; 02-26-2013 at 05:21 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 94
02-26-2013, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
There were AFKers for Dil.
There are AFKers for Marks.
There's little doubt there would be AFKers for Rep.
Make it based on kills. No AFK-ing that

Of course, the tears will flood Ker'rat, but it'll be amusing.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 95
02-26-2013, 05:27 PM
If you don't do PvP, why are you complaining about something that it's only useful in PvP?

Are you having mental problems?
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 96
02-26-2013, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo1raine View Post
Just wait until the forum pvp reputation system comes out. Then you will have some things to complain about.
I see white smoke!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 97
02-26-2013, 06:30 PM
If Rep means more idling in the PvP queues then they can keep their gimmicky toys. I've said this is gonna become a much worse problem before when this idea was first floated.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,035
# 98
02-26-2013, 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
I somewhat dislike the idea of PvP reputation (increasing the skill gap), but the truth is that if they don't add PvP rep they'll add some other kind of PvE rep that will be a horrible grind.

Maybe some good could come out of it if, for example, Feds had separate FvF and FvK reps (would encourage more FvK) and Klingons had separate KvK and FvK resp (would encourage more KvK)
+1
Its a good point... if the other option is going to be hanging out at DS9 for a month grinding stupid save bajor, and chase some snake heads around some nebula type missions... perhaps I'm on board with PvP rep after all. lol
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,035
# 99
02-26-2013, 09:21 PM
Escorts are squishy ships when they are fighting a premade. At that point you need your own pocket healer to compete.

Against a PUG the escort cleans up... mainly it is my belief that most PvE players who make up most of the pugs have no idea how to deal with them. I can't recall seeing any borg that like to evasive around you... or any Breen escorts that won't stop pounding on only one shield facing.

Escorts rule pugs...

Escorts are needed (1-2) in a premade.

Really though any good player can rule the pugs with a sci ship or a cruiser... they simply have to fight differently from a borg cube and it confuses people. lol
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,237
# 100
02-26-2013, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
* PvP is ruled by escorts. Yes, there are one or two non-escorts who I've seen do well. One or two over 6 hours.
Escorts are the easiest class of ship to do well in, given that they can actually hurt someone. Being shot to death produces very visible effects, so it's understandable while you see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
* Science powers annoy. That's as bad as it's been for me. They don't really hamper you that much.
Sci has a very high entry barrier to being useful. When they're good at what they do, they can completely ruin your day. When they're not so great...yeah, they're annoying. And since most players range from bad to terrible, this is what you see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
* Cruisers just don't hit hard enough. Any dent they make in an escort's shield is rendered useless by a quick turn of their ship. That's in the 5 second window where their alternating Tac Team isn't up.
Well, cruisers do "pressure" damage. There is no such thing in this game, so naturally, they don't do damage, period. This has been talked about before. However, there are other uses for cruisers...uses that most people don't grasp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
* Escorts seem to tank and tank and tank. I've seen two ships where I couldn't make a dent in their shields after close to a minute of repeated fire and debuffing. Both were escorts. In both matches I was in the top 4 damage dealers. (I parsed the matches.)
Unsurprising. They're nigh-impossible to hit without PvP-grade weaponry or severe immobilization spam, for which you need those Sci ships you deemed annoying. Without the kind of coordination needed to pull this off, there's just no way to squish them unless they suck hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
These fly in the face of reason and fly in the face of Trek. Call me old fashioned, but I like my Trek games to be a little more Trek. Science should be more than an annoyance. You should see science and be wary. Cruisers should be harder to kill. Escorts should NOT be able to tank.
I can't say I disagree with any of these points, but we have what we have.
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