Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 36
# 1 Noob help?
02-21-2013, 08:43 PM
Hope this is the right place to post this.

So, I have never done space PvP before. But since they added marks to the daily wrapper I figured I'd give 'er a try. Went in, and popped someone right off the bat. Yeah! First victory! Then, a taste of reality. I couldn't drop anyone's shields. Not even the guy I popped before. I have a (what I think is good for PvE at least) good build, pushing an average of 6,200 dps in ISE runs. But I know that PvP is often very different from PvE. So I shall give my build, and if anyone is so kind, please give me your pointers on improvements or whether this is a lost cause, etc. Keep in mind this is one of my many ships with different builds, so I'm not incredibly partial to it. Just been using it a lot lately cause it is pretty awesome in PvE.

Me: Tactical Captain, specced almost fully into space

Ship: Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit

Fore: 2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple, 1x Romulan Experimental Beam Array, 1x Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo

Aft: 3x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple

Set: Full Romulan Mk XII Purple set

Devices: Red Matter Capacitor, Shield Batteries

Eng Consoles: Tachyokinetic Converter, Zero-Point Energy Conduit, Assimilated Module

Sci Consoles: 2x Emitter Array Mk XII [-Th][Plasma] Ultraviolets from embassy

Tac Consoles: 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI Blue

BOFF Powers, in ascending order:

Cmdr Tac: Tac Team 1, Beam FAW 2, Beam OL 3, AP Omega 3
Lt Cmdr Tac: Beam Target Shields 1, Tac Team 2, Torp HY 3
Ensign Tac: Torp Spread 1

Lt Eng: EP2Weapons 1, Eng Team 2

Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard 2

Also have these passives from Omega Rep: Hull Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
And from Romulan Rep: Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation

So, tear apart! Or give feedback, or tell me I should trash the build and go with a different one. Whatever you think.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 194
# 2
02-21-2013, 08:53 PM
first off plasma ant worth anything in PvP everyone has a stf set shiled
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 3
02-21-2013, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkchaosbunnies View Post
Hope this is the right place to post this.

So, I have never done space PvP before. But since they added marks to the daily wrapper I figured I'd give 'er a try. Went in, and popped someone right off the bat. Yeah! First victory! Then, a taste of reality. I couldn't drop anyone's shields. Not even the guy I popped before. I have a (what I think is good for PvE at least) good build, pushing an average of 6,200 dps in ISE runs. But I know that PvP is often very different from PvE. So I shall give my build, and if anyone is so kind, please give me your pointers on improvements or whether this is a lost cause, etc. Keep in mind this is one of my many ships with different builds, so I'm not incredibly partial to it. Just been using it a lot lately cause it is pretty awesome in PvE.

Me: Tactical Captain, specced almost fully into space

Ship: Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit

Fore: 2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple, 1x Romulan Experimental Beam Array, 1x Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo

Aft: 3x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple

Set: Full Romulan Mk XII Purple set

Devices: Red Matter Capacitor, Shield Batteries

Eng Consoles: Tachyokinetic Converter, Zero-Point Energy Conduit, Assimilated Module

Sci Consoles: 2x Emitter Array Mk XII [-Th][Plasma] Ultraviolets from embassy

Tac Consoles: 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI Blue

BOFF Powers, in ascending order:

Cmdr Tac: Tac Team 1, Beam FAW 2, Beam OL 3, AP Omega 3
Lt Cmdr Tac: Beam Target Shields 1, Tac Team 2, Torp HY 3
Ensign Tac: Torp Spread 1

Lt Eng: EP2Weapons 1, Eng Team 2

Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard 2

Also have these passives from Omega Rep: Hull Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
And from Romulan Rep: Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation

So, tear apart! Or give feedback, or tell me I should trash the build and go with a different one. Whatever you think.
Let me be one of the first to welcome you to the PvP community. We are a passionate bunch who (generally) love to help out folks like yourself who are eager and willing to learn. No doubt you will gain some great input from some of the other tacs in this group, so I will let them work their magic. I only want to say that we would love to have you on board at PvP Boot Camp. The goal of Boot Camp is to help players take their pvp skills to the next level.

Unfortunately, you are asking for hep when we are about 3/4 through the curriculum that we teach, so you can't join with the rest of the students who have already done the first three. However, on Saturday March 2, we will have an open PvP session on Saturday 5pm EST and 5pm CET where anyone can jump on to the Boot Camp TeamSpeak server and team up with other players who are trying to learn about PvP. Here is our Boot Camp TeamSpeak info:

pvpbootcamp.com:1406

Also, check out the PvP Boot Camp website: http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/

And the subforum: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/fo...play.php?f=351

Please feel free to contact me ingame: @gradstudent1. I can try to include you in some matches. If I am on, it is probably to jump into the PvP ques, and you would be more than welcome to join the team.

One more thing, if you use the STO Academy website to display your space skills and link it here, we can give you comments on how your skill tree is set up. Having a properly specced character is one of the most important aspects of PvP.

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus

Last edited by gradstudent1; 02-21-2013 at 08:56 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,915
# 4
02-22-2013, 05:24 AM
Your build works great for PVE but as the experienced PvP community knows you have to be quicker, more able to tank and react but your attacks have to spike much faster and timed at the proper moment in order to overcome your target's ability to tank and react.

Timing, Strategy, refining your build and equipment, Action, Reaction are essential for PvP.

I recommend you look at the Hilbert Guides for ship building. It'll give you a foundation of what most escorts setups look like.

If you need more help email or contact me in game @edalgo

Goodluck
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,798
# 5
02-22-2013, 07:16 AM
Well thats a pve build alright.

As others have said welcome to STO pvp... yes it rewards some stuff... but that isn't the reason you will fall in love with it.

If you are going to continue flying escorts in STO pvp you are going to have to play to your ships advantages.

That would mean removing all the beams.

As others have mentioned plasma weaponry is mostly terrible in PvP as everyone mostly has shields that have at least +20% resist to plasma.

You are going to want to run cannons.... in a defiant a torpedo is ok... but you can't just dumb fire it like you can in PvE... you will have to bind your torp to its own key and fire it WHEN you see a good opportunity to hit a shield facing.

There is some good starter threads here look around and get some ideas... Here is a basic good start build I would suggest... and honestly it will provide higher dps in STFS then what you where doing before most likely.

You seem to have lots of rep done So I will assume you have some in game EC to drop on some new gear and possibly a few doffs... anyway try this out.

Tac Team 1 - High Yield 2 - Rapid fire 2 - omega 3
Tac Team 1 - Delta 1 - Rapid Fire 2
High Yield 1

Emergency Power to Engines 1 / or EPT Shields 1 - Emergency Power to Shields 2

Transfer Shield strength 1 - hazards 2

For Weapons....
Buy OFF the exchange don't use rep or D to get junk fleet stuff its not great of pve.

Buy what ever weapon type you like EXCEPT plasma... if you still plan to do lots of STFs get disruptors... as they still do very well in pve.
For mods... go with [acc] or [crth]... any combo of the 2 is good. Some people will tell you [acc]x3 is best some will tell you [crth]x2... honestly grab whats cheap... Myself I run [acc] [crth]x2.

3 Dual Heavy Cannons. 1 Quantum Torpedo (You want a high burst weapon to end people when a facing does drop... or when someone is working with very low shields on all sides that is when you launch)
2 Turrets + the Kinetic Cutting beam in back

For doffs....
If you can afford it get 2 Attack pattern doffs. (they are purple conn doffs.) you only need 2 this will mean you will ALWAYS have an omega or delta up for more defense and dmg, turn ect.
You will want 2 Damage Control Doffs... IF you want to run Emergency power to engines. this will allow you to keep your one copy of engines and your one copy of shields up 100%... if you don't want to use these doffs... just run 2 copies of EPTS
as the last doff... put in Torpedo Doffs... 1 if you run dmg control... 3 if you don't.

On your consoles... you are going to want to slot one Neutronium armour for sure... change as you see fit to make that happen. For your ship set... I would loose the romulan set... its fine for the pve setup you had of course... for pvp you are going to get shreded in that. If you can get the Maco shield... you then likely want to run the borg set engine and deflector for the extra hull heal. If you can't get a maco... get as good a Resilient shield as you can find. The fleet one if your fleet has access... or worst case buy a mk xii off the exchange.

That should be a pretty solid defiant build for both pvp and pve.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 02-22-2013 at 07:21 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 111
# 6
02-22-2013, 08:35 AM
Hi, and welcome to PvP! As the others have said, the PvP community is mostly very eager to help increase players' knowledge so they can enjoy the pew even more and help promote the awesomeness that is PvP. I don't know if you've looked around on the PvP forums yet, but there are many threads and stickies that have great builds to work with. PvP is a different game than STF's, and if you do well in PvP (or even somewhat okay) you will tear through those nasty Borg like tissue paper. Hope you find all you are looking for! And here is a link to one of the sticky posts:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=274791

Enjoy!
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
# 7
03-05-2013, 12:26 PM
Yep they are all right... PvE build alright..... Sorry to say your choking your damage pontential using a beam-scort. Also, using plasma? You need to get rid of that post haste. Tact/scort pilots should always utilize DHC (aka dual heavy cannons), especially in that Fleet Tact Escort, you have the turn rate to make it work. The Fleet Tact Escort (aka defiant) is a fearsome speedy hit n run ship, though it can hold it's own in a dogfight, depending on your piloting skills and that of your opponent's, there is a possibly you may fall short to a Fleet Escort (aka Sabre) or especially a JHAS, both of which can slightly out-tank you due to their boff station layout and engineering console layouts. But in the end is really comes down to the player skill, experience.

Alot of these guys posting here are right. I would check out the threads on the top of the forums here on ship builds and the PvP help thread. Trust me you can't go wrong.

Good luck! And can't wait to see you out in the battlefield to blow you up
THE POWER OF KRATOS!!!
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 558
# 8
03-05-2013, 12:50 PM
Hi,

Hilbert Guide and STO Planner are a good starting point too. As for PVP itself, it comes down to team work. If you like, pm me in game when you are ready and we can go over some of the basics I have taken away from my time at PVP boot camp thus far. Also, we can work together as a team.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,141
# 9
03-05-2013, 02:14 PM
First, let me put it into something easier for me to read. It's nothing against what you posted, it's an issue that I have. Lol, it's not you - it's me...muahahaha, but seriously - it is. I've gotten used to reading things a certain way for processing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkchaosbunnies View Post
Fleet Defiant - Tac Captain

Traits - ?

Passives
New Rom - Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, QSM(Active)
Omega - Hull-Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair

TT1, FAW2, BO3, APO3
BTS1, TT2, THY3
TS1

EPtW1, ET2
PH1, HE2

BOFF Species - ?

DOFFs - ?

Deflector - Romulan Mk XII
Engine - Romulan Mk XII
Shields - Romulan Mk XII

Weapons
Fore - Hyper-Plasma Torp, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg], Experimental Beam Array
Aft - 3x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg]

Consoles
Tac - 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI
Eng - Tachyo, 0Point, Borg
Sci - 2x Rom Emitter Mk XII [-Th][Pla]

Devices - RMC, Shield Batt
Oh, before I continue - I should offer my standard disclaimer. Ignore what I'm about to say. Seriously, I fly and post some of the flakiest stuff. Anybody will tell you that.

Okay, so where to start? Hrmmm, I know - I'll post my Eng's build in his Chel Grett. To an extent, it's close to what it appears you're trying to do with your Defiant.

Chel Grett - Eng Captain

Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist

Passives
New Rom - Precision, Emergency Secondary Shielding, QSM(Active)
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier

TT1, THY2, APO1, APO3
TS1, FAW2

EPtS1, AtS1
EPtW1

ST1, HE2, TSS3

BOFF Species - 2x Hum Engs - (should be 3x Hum and 2x Rom Tac, but oh well)

DOFFs - SDO(BFI), CONN(TT), 2x DCE(EPt), WCE(EPt) - (no doubt I need to tweak/upgrade this)

Deflector - Aegis - (~980 Omega Marks away from the MACO Mk XII - have been for almost a week now, lol)
Engine - Aegis
Shields - MACO Mk XII

Weapons
Fore - Omega Torp, Experimental Beam Array, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2
Aft - Hyper-Plasma Torp, Cutting Beam, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2

Consoles
Tac - 4x Plasma Infuser Mk XI
Eng - Borg, Tachyo, Neut Mk XI
Sci - EPM, 0Point, FG Mk XI

Devices - SFM, Aux Batt, Eng Batt

So perhaps you can see why I posted that - the similarities, so to speak, between my Eng in his Chel and your Tac in the Fleet Defiant. One can probably also see where you were going with trying to increase your Tac's Defense while I went with increasing my Eng's Offense.

I'm just not sure you're going to get the synergy from what you're doing that I get from what I'm doing. Face it, a Tac's best defense is a combination of movement, somebody healing them, and killing the person trying to kill them as fast as possible.

So I get the Arrays, it allows for easier movement - you can fly around going wheeee without having to maneuver and potentially sit on that 45 arc for the DHCs. But depending on how the rest of your toon's built, well - it may or may not fall into the category of not being as efficient as it could be. My Eng's sporting +90% Bonus Defense while he flies around going wheeeee - before taking into account APO, SFM, or EM. He carries two APOs to deal with tractors...and he also carries Eng Batts - he will pop one, EM, SFM, etc if he gets tractored while either of the APOs are on CD. My Engine disables don't last that long, but if the poops about to hit the fan - I'll waste the heal and eat the CD on MW to get out of there. You've got the single APO and the PH (as well as the RMC and ET) - that still leaves some gaps for folks to hold you there. Defense drops - and - respawn.

With that being said, you may want (don't forget the disclaimer - ignore what I say!) to consider the following change to your Tac BOFFs:

TT1, FAW2, BO3, APO3
TT1, THY2, APO1
TS1


While I've got that there - there's the somewhat quiet debate that takes place in regard to the Accuracy of BO3. I don't want to get into that, but I do want to talk about your Accuracy overall, eh? Do you have the Accurate Trait? How many points do you have in Targeting? With what's showing, only your weapons with the single Acc mod have a bonus to Accuracy. That being +10%. If that's your only source, then say you were trying to hit my Eng from above - well, you'd only have a 55.6% chance of hitting me. That's just with the weapons with the Acc mod. It would be 52.6% chance for the other weapons. The Accurate Trait (+10%) and 9 in Targeting (+15%)...well, that would take you to 64.5% To-Hit.

Sure, that may seem extreme - but there's folks over 100% base Bonus Defense because of gearing. Thissler's got a great post on the fruitlessness of chasing Defense though. It's a team thing, right? Get somebody to park that target. Depending on how their built, they might even end up at -15% Bonus Defense. I'm at +15% sitting still.

So it's a case of just being aware of how Accuracy would come into play with regard to that BO - not wanting to waste it on some idiot like me flying around going wheeee - but wanting to use it on the target that somebody's parked (and they still park my noob butt, pesky chained SNB/VM/tractors).

You can't really do anything about the somebody healing you part outside of running in a Premade or a PUGmade. If you're dancing in PUGland - you never know what you'll get. While it can be awesome to make something out of what looks like nothing in such matches, at other times it can set you up for a ton of frustration. PUGland's a gamble - it's a thrilling risk in my opinion - but it's not for everybody.

Killing faster. That was the third part of what I mentioned about the Tac/Escort Defense thing, eh? As others have mentioned, well, Arrays aren't going to get that done. But wait, I've got Arrays on my Eng/Scort. But yeah, I'm fighting that battle of attrition...I'm timing abilities with what other folks are doing - I'm flying around going wheee and am able to toss some healing around. I prefer to grab the attention of some folks and have them focus on missing me.../cough. I loathe Sci. They ruin all my fun - bastiches! But yeah, I'll try to grab the attention of folks - so when they're not paying attention - the Tac/Escorts will shred them. I'll try to move the battle away from the healers - stretch folks out - etc, etc, etc. And oh yeah, I like shooting pets/mines/targetable torps. I'm playing my flaky/quirky part in the battle. As a Tac/Escort...well, it's not a case that you absolutely have to run DHCs...

Interlude - yes, folks are calling me a complete nub at this point.

...but if you're not going to run them, you have to build around not running them. You're still a Tac. You're about killing stuff faster. Your Rep Passives - well, they're not about killing anything faster. They're giving you a little defensive boost while trading off a lot of offensive boost. Yes, I know how expensive the Rom Arrays are...but the [Dmg] mod instead of either a second [Acc] or [CrtH] - just isn't going to help you kill faster.

Okay, too much blah, blah, blah. Here's what I would do with a Tac in a Fleet Defiant looking to use Plasma. BTW, don't forget the disclaimer - ignore what I'm saying - I'm a total flake. There are some great PvPers here that will be able to help you with any build. Still... the VD Defiant...muahahahhaa:

Fleet Defiant - Tac Captain

Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist

Passives
New Rom - Precision, Sensor Targeting Assault, QSM(Active)
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier

TT1, FAW2, BO3, APO3
TT1, THY2, APO1
TS1

EPtS1, DEM1
HE1, TBR1

BOFF Species - 3x Rom Tac, 2x Saurian

DOFFs - SDO(BFI), EWO(Beam), SE(DEM), TBO(TBR)...er?

Deflector - Omega Mk XII
Engine - Omega Mk XII
Shields - Elite Fleet Res/Adapt/etc

Weapons
Fore - Omega Torp, Experimental Beam Array, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2
Aft - Hyper-Plasma Torp, Cutting Beam, Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2

Consoles
Tac - 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI - Mk XII if you've got more EC than you know what to do with it
Eng - Tachyo, 0Point, Borg
Sci - 2x Rom Flow Mk XII [-Th][Pla]

Devices - RMC, Eng Batt

But yeah, like I said - I'd ignore this and check out the PvP ship build thread that's been stickied or just ask for more info from some of the folks that have already posted (the bootcamp thing, etc) or even check out OrganizedPvP (channel in game)...
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 10
03-05-2013, 06:57 PM
All I can say is listen and learn from those who offer thier experience.

And Learn Throttle Control and how it can help you position yourself fpr attack and defense in combat.
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