Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,345
# 41
02-28-2013, 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
If that where true more people would be good at it...
There are a lot more good tac escort players than good engineer cruisers.
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 42
02-28-2013, 06:04 AM
the problem is that a good engineer player, wont be as good as a good tac player
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 43
02-28-2013, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
There are a lot more good tac escort players than good engineer cruisers.
Only because most of us don't fly our engi toons anymore.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 351
# 44
02-28-2013, 06:17 AM
I agree about the use of taunts in pvp, but one thing I did like about TOR pvp was that the tank classes could "bubble" someone and either reduce incoming dmg to their protectee or transfer a large amount of incoming damage to themselves. It was an interesting dynamic, to me at least. You could phrase it as being like the Ent-E putting itself in front of the Defiant in First Contact, or some other treknobabble.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,345
# 45
02-28-2013, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Only because most of us don't fly our engi toons anymore.
Circular logic.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,345
# 46
02-28-2013, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
the problem is that a good engineer player, wont be as good as a good tac player
Exactly. The maximum in performance is lower, the skill and knowledge about the game required to actually reach the maximum is higher.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 47
02-28-2013, 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Circular logic.
No circular play styles.

The game isn't new Sophie... there is a large number of players that have been here since day one. Those players have Tacs and Scis and Engies... and in most cases 2-3 of each for each faction. I have at least 2 of all 3 classes on both sides. Many people I know have at least one of each.

However people tend to play what is strong at that time.... there was a time early in the game that I played my engi toons more then anything else. There was a time when Sci was king of the court (or at least the flavor builds where all sci). So you tended to see quite a few Sci in the ques.

Right now Tac is widely seen as the strongest of the 3 classes in general... so it isn't shocking that most people tend to gravitate to there tacs when they Que up.

If Engi gets buffs... you will likely notice lots of those people you don't care for that run around in there escorts now... will pull the Engi ships out of the garage. At that point you will likely realize that many of those players that are really good in there escorts are also really good with there engi toons.

Its no circular logic... its build it and they will come.

If someone found a Flavor of the month engi build that was perceived to be superior to other builds... if it gets talked about by pvp players. There is a good chance you will see more people flying something similar.

Its PvP people play what is strong... Engineer hasn't always been week. When it was strong more people played them. Those toons didn't get deleted. Those players are still likely just as good as they where when they parked them... and I ill predict it now. There will be a rise of the Engi Class at some point. Its only a matter of time before Cryptic buffs something that makes it work again.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 48
02-28-2013, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Exactly. The maximum in performance is lower, the skill and knowledge about the game required to actually reach the maximum is higher.
Not at all the knowledge cap in regards to top of game performance is the same for all 3 classes.

The threshold of mediocrity however is higher on Engi, that is true.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 351
# 49
02-28-2013, 07:29 AM
My first character from head start was an engy. He is still there, languishing in PVE Hell; awaiting the day he can return to his former stomping grounds. I truly wish I could bring him back, with a new viable role.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 50
02-28-2013, 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrocer56 View Post
I agree about the use of taunts in pvp, but one thing I did like about TOR pvp was that the tank classes could "bubble" someone and either reduce incoming dmg to their protectee or transfer a large amount of incoming damage to themselves.
Yeah that's an interesting concept.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Exactly. The maximum in performance is lower, the skill and knowledge about the game required to actually reach the maximum is higher.


Care to explain at what point the Tac has better maximum performance in healing over the Engineer?


The problem with that assessment, is the assumption that "maximum performance" = "maximum damage", it does not.

SCI performs exceptionally well, and SCI's damage capabilities are not any better than an ENG on a team.

The difference, is that the SCI has more team focused powers (use on others) and SNB. (SCI's two big debuffs help everyone, not just the SCI so the offense boost is teamwide)


The problem with ENG is that they should be designed to be the best kill-stoppers in the game, but two of their better powers are self-only.


If those were usable on others it would be one good step towards the Engineer fulfilling their maximum healing performance.


This would lead to something like this:

SCI = Kill opportunity creator (Career abilities currently do this)
TAC = Kill opportunity exploiter (Career abilities currently do this)
ENG = Kill opportunity stopper (Career abilities only do this for self, some of SCI career abilities can do this but MW & RSF would be better the better toolset)


This would also neatly wrap up the 3 careers as I think they were originally designed:

SCI: Some offense (SNB, SS), Some defense (Scattering Field, Sci Fleet)
TAC: All offense
ENG: All defense (currently all defense, but too much of it is self only)


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-28-2013 at 08:19 AM.
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