Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 61
02-28-2013, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
By the same logic, they could spare more sci slots for CC or more slots for offensive abilities. You are basically arguing that because of increased survivability, an Engineer captain would be better at everything.
No, that's not what I'm arguing. Don't put words into my mouth.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
And that is of course nonsense. The engineer captain in space is no better healer than the tac, just a more surviveable one.

Did you somehow miss the rest of the posts in this thread telling you quite clearly that this is not the case?

One of the major requirements of being a healer is in fact being survivable, you are one of the lynchpins of the entire team.




You are chopping tiny snippets of posts to misconstrue and respond to, and simultaneously ignoring any argument that does not agree with yours (which in this case, is basically everyone else).

Do you want to have an actual conversation on this, or do you just keep posting hoping suddenly everyone will agree with you

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,337
# 62
02-28-2013, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
No, that's not what I'm arguing. Don't put words into my mouth.
That's exactly what you have been saying. Without noticing it, of course, but you said it. "More Captain skills in survivability mean more free boff slots for [task]."

Engineers do in no way support their boffs' healing abilities with their captain abilities. That means they are no better healers.

It's just that there is no captain class that actually does improve healing boff abilities, and thus, the healer is as good or bad a healer as any... but not as good a damage dealer, and not as good a debuffer as the pother classes, so he gets fed with what's left.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,394
# 63
02-28-2013, 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
By the same logic, they could spare more sci slots for CC or more slots for offensive abilities. You are basically arguing that because of increased survivability, an Engineer captain would be better at everything.

And that is of course nonsense. The engineer captain in space is no better healer than the tac, just a more surviveable one.
You missed the WHOLE POINT AGAIN or are just a pure forum spamming ..........

The eng has RSF to protect himself - Case point 1 - 2 players being focused in a team, 1 is an engi. Instead of having to use TSS on himself fo heal and resistance, he could use it on another person whilst using RSF on himself to help the collective team. The tac cannont do that.
REASON 1 why eng is better healer

The eng has miracle worker - Case point 2 - 2 players are being focused in the team, both down to minimum hull and shileds one is an engi, the other a tac - the engi can self heal with miracle worker whilst healing the team mate with catable heals. Tac cannont do that so your just completely missing the poin
REASON 2 why eng is better healer

God, it seems like this guy is playing another PVP game no one else is playing. "Formation flying in PVP would be awesome" - Hurp Durp!

Your logic in simpleton terms - Your asking a car mechanic to repair a plane and asking an aircraft maintenance engineer to repair a car. Both might be able to do it, but who is going to be most effective?? Hurp Durp!!
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles

Last edited by naz4; 02-28-2013 at 12:15 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,337
# 64
02-28-2013, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
You missed the WHOLE POINT AGAIN
No, I understand perfectly that you and a few other people seem to think that making a ship more survivable makes it a better healer because it can spend less boff slots on self-healing. What you refuse to accept is that the same goes for any other area in the game, too. Instead of taking a survivability boff power, the engineer can take a team heal - but he can instead take a damage buff or a sci debuff or a crowd control ability.

Please understand that.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,166
# 65
02-28-2013, 12:29 PM
theres nothing to understand. as soon as a tac has to use TSS on himself because he doesn't have RSF, you lose the argument.

an eng healer taking cc or damage skills to keep even with a tac healer, is a fail build. nothing the healer is equipped with will deal any damage, and your just distracting yourself from healing by taking an offensive stance. its also the opposite of minmaxing, which is also fail
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Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 02-28-2013 at 12:31 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 367
# 66
02-28-2013, 12:32 PM
Sophie is kinda right. Eng does not make healing better. Eng just gives more opportunities to use healing abilities IF he is under attack. But then if people attack healer then his captain abilities alone wont change much as they are attacking him either to kill or to force him to spent castable heales on himself. In both cases you could as well put an tac in this cruiser and results will be the same.

All in all a sci in cruiser would make better healer/supporter with one of his abilities (scattering field) actually buffing his team.

Make engs MW and RSF castable and then you would have a point.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 67
02-28-2013, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Healing goes... Engi > Sci > Tac

Everyone knows that.
If one were to be honest, that's not the case in the least.

Sci > Eng > Tac.

Science Fleet > Engineering Fleet.

Those are the only two things in the three of them that involve healing somebody other than the toon itself.

The Eng can pop MW. MW can't be stripped. It might allow the Eng or the Eng's team a couple of seconds to get in some resists/additional healing. Those couple of seconds is the advantage the Eng has over Sci in PvP as a Healer. Pop MW without those additional resists/heals incoming...you might as well have saved it for after the respawn for a time when they might have been there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
This would also neatly wrap up the 3 careers as I think they were originally designed:

SCI: Some offense (SNB, SS), Some defense (Scattering Field, Sci Fleet)
TAC: All offense
ENG: All defense (currently all defense, but too much of it is self only)
I'm going to keep arguing that Space match Ground.

Tac: Offense (mix of self and team)
Sci: Offense -> Defense (mix of self and team)
Eng: Defense (mix of self and team) -> Offense

For the Sci and Eng, their Offense and Defense is Support in nature. Sci should bring the better Offensive Support and Eng should bring the better Defensive Support.

It shouldn't be a case where you absolutely need a Sci or you absolutely need an Eng, though. Yes, some min/max folks would obviously take the Sci for the Offensive Support and the Engineer for the Defensive Support...but Creative Folks could see where they could do things with 2x Sci or 2x Eng, etc, etc, etc.

The thing we keep seeing over and over is the Eng doesn't have SNB. That should throw up a big ol' WARNING - that there's a problem with SNB. It's too powerful. But then again, cleanses are too powerful as well. There wouldn't be the need for SNB if cleanses weren't as powerful as they are. People would be flying around buffed/debuffed - with many of those buffs/debuffs basically cancelling each other out. A cleanse should clear some debuffs. A SNB should clear some buffs. They should tip the balance, give an edge either to the buffs or debuffs. It shouldn't be additional layers of Yo-Yo mechanics like we've got.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 68
02-28-2013, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its also the opposite of minmaxing, which is also fail
Overspecialization through minmaxing is setting yourself up for failure. You become dependent on everything being just right for what you did...

Minmaxing is a PvE thing. Where the encounter you face is always going to be the same. There's never going to be anything different about it. Can't say the same about PvP...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,337
# 69
02-28-2013, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
theres nothing to understand. as soon as a tac has to use TSS on himself because he doesn't have RSF, you lose the argument.
Winning and loosing are no viable concepts in a debate.

Please contemplate the following:

"As soon as a sci cannot use TR because he had to slot TSS for survivability, he's a worse AOE power drainer than an engineer."
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 883
# 70
02-28-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Science Fleet > Engineering Fleet.

Those are the only two things in the three of them that involve healing somebody other than the toon itself.
Don't forget scattering field.
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