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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 544
# 21
03-01-2013, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
What science abilities are boosted directly by sci captain powers in the same way tac captains can boost sci boff powers?
What Science Abilites buff Science BOff powers...? Sub-Nucleonic Beam.

The main problem with Science powers at this time is their debuff components are often (but hardly always) too weak to demand the target use a counter to clear the debuff or be crippled by it. I'll explain.

Looking at the system of debuffs, debuff clears, and SNB's buff strip and cooldown extension, it seems pretty clear that the intent behind Sci BOff debuffs is to prompt counters -or- the target is crippled.

"But Corsair! A Tactical Captain can use those same debuffs and make his guns and torps and some of those same debuffs really hurt!" Yes, but he has no ability to control the counters to those debuffs. Often, a Tactical Captain can deal a crippling amount of damage that bypasses shields, more rarely, can the Tactical Captain *kill* reliably with these powers and what's worse, since the damage is not particularly spiky, but dealt in a quick yet measured manner, he risks charging an opposing Tactical Captain's GDF. On top of that, in order to get the most out of the damage these powers can deal, he's going to have to sacrifice strengthening the CC components of his powers. His TBR will push less, her PSW will push less, his Grav Well will be smaller, and her Scramble Sensors will be less scramble-y. Or he improves their CC-effect and forgoes boosting the damage, which hurts a lot because of the way Tactical powers work with the damage numbers to boost them.

Science Captains play a different game from Tacs, using drains, movement debuffs, disables, holds, and SNB to impede and reduce opponents so your own Tactical Captains can get kills. A Science Captain (outside of STF's) loses very little choosing Graviton Gens over equipping Particle Gens for his Grav Well, for example, as he doesn't multiplicatively increase the damage he does with the power. The main thing that hurts Science BOff powers right now are these:

1. Extremely powerful passive resists with little cost for acquisition. They've no business in the skill tree, and should only exist as consoles (imagine, if you will, a Jem'Hadar Attack ship's only resistance to drain was a single PI console and whatever it had on the Deflector).

2. The inability for the game to provide proper disincentives for stacking one type of debuff until the target is crippled beyond fighting capacity. If we tossed PI out tomorrow you would be able to field groups of Sci ships that simply obliterated everyone's shields as though they were tissue paper.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 22
03-01-2013, 10:50 PM
Where the is a will there is a way.

Tac in a sci. Yup probably a few ways to do that to great effect. I stole some ones burst vesta build and its great fun, 8 seconds of godlike power followed by 5 minutes of cooldowns. But its really likely that someone blew the hell up during those 8 seconds.

Eng in an escort. Thats easy you seen what nadion on that andorian ship does with canon skills + BO? its dumb and scary.

And I've seen one really hilarous sci in a GalX decloak subnuke critlance.


So decide what you want to do, Damage survive support ect then just start looking at what you can do that that results in a really focused pursuit of that. If it puts you in a sci/escort/cruiser, so be it.
Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
# 23
03-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Aux2Batt does miracles for tac's in any type of ship capable of supporting it, and saying tac's are not viable in anything other than escorts is just short sighted and I can prove it. So far I have 2 non-escorts on my fed char that I use with great success for PvP, my KDF char uses Battlecruisers exclusively. One is an aux2batt Vesta, DDIS knows very well how dangerous that can be because he posted a build on another thread underlining how you can basically spam VM, ST, EWP and other abilities which are not aux dependent to utterly frustrate and immobilize and destroy your opponent with a well timed DHC spike.

I was getting killed 1v1 against bug ships nearly 80% of the time, the other 20% was just incompetent players...since I have switched out of escorts I no longer fear the bug, I go in knowing confidently that I can tank their damage, since there is no point in trying to outmaneuver them even in an escort, and I have access to enough disables that I can wear them down with a combination of spike and pressure damage.

My second ship is the free Ambassador which I will post here. I don't consider every ship I have to be PvP worthy, I normally rotate which ships I use so I don't get bored. So that being said this build fits those days when I just want to cruise, be able to tank, and do pressure damage which is surprisingly high, coming out 1st or 2nd in damage in many pugs, and I will point this out to my fellow teammates at the end, its just not acceptable that a free ambassador is out damaging Kumari's and other escorts. This build is just an example of how a tac can be quite viable in a non-escort

Defbond's 2 Aux2batt Free Ambassador:

Fore Weapons, 3 Mk XII Beam Arrays [Accx2 or x3], 1 Omega Torpedo Launcher
Aft Weapons 3 Mk XII Beam Arrays [Accx2 or x3], 1 Breen Transphasic Cluster Torp


THY1, TS:E1
TT1


EPtS1, AtB1, RSP2, DEM3
ET1, AtB1


TB1, HE2, VM1

Equipement

Elite Fleet Covariant Shields ResA
Borg Deflector
Borg Engines

Consoles

Subspace Jumper, Neutronium, Borg, RCS

2x Field Generator

3 Energy Damage Type

Doffs

3 Purple Tech Doffs, 1 VM, 1 BFI

Boffs

1 Romulan Tac with Operative passive
4 Humans

Strategy

The Merge: Begin with TT1, THY1 then once the opponent fires the first volley Subspace Jump, DEM, APA, VM1 and TB1, thus avoiding the Alpha and disabling their ship, aww you used Tac Team to avoid my alpha, what are you gonna do about the VM now

The Weardown: Once you are behind the ship begin broadsiding, the VM will wear off by now and your opponent will be angry and quite aggressive, tank the remaining Alpha with TT1, BFI, and EPtS1 while wearing down the hull with DEM3, an escort will eventually get your shields down, now is the time for RSP2(At global). VM will be back up as it is at global. It will take some clever maneuvering to get your opponents ship in your 90' arc again but wait for his/her APO to finish then engage tractor beam, which is at global. Continue spamming DEM3(which is also at global) and the for mentioned steps until their hull is getting low, 30% or less preferably.

The Final Blow: With your opponents hull low, and your APA and subspace jump back from cooldown, repeat the merge strategy, the DEM will continue weakening their hull only this time instead of a sustained broadside, pass your opponent and let the cluster torp fire, 75% of the time the cluster torp will finish them off, if you are lucky even chain critting at 3k per torp which is 30k hull damage, the rest of the time just let the DEM snack on their hull and finish off whats left. Relax now, and revel in the fact on how you owned a lockbox ship in the free ambassador, moreover as a tac in a cruiser...

A Final Note: Hazard Emitters is aux dependent, I chose not to include EPtA in my build because if I need to hull heal myself or an ally with aux2batt running I will switch to a high aux power level preset and the aux power will come back up, if its an emergency pop an aux battery and use HE. The rest of the time, try to time ET with RSP, its the one time when TT is not needed so you can use it without fear of being spiked from one side. This is usually enough combined with the human boffs to keep your hull intact...
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 438
# 24
03-02-2013, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
What Science Abilites buff Science BOff powers...? Sub-Nucleonic Beam.
The sub-nuke seems to be the only thing sci officers are good for... From my perspective, tac officers can directly modify the effectiveness of sci boff powers more often than sci captains can, from fire on my mark to one of several alpha strikes. Point being, a sci officer doesn't really need to be in a sci ship or have any real ownership over the abilities sci ships have...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 25
03-02-2013, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
The sub-nuke seems to be the only thing sci officers are good for... From my perspective, tac officers can directly modify the effectiveness of sci boff powers more often than sci captains can, from fire on my mark to one of several alpha strikes. Point being, a sci officer doesn't really need to be in a sci ship or have any real ownership over the abilities sci ships have...
Well, that's a little silly... a Tac/Sci can't heal nearly as well as a Sci/Sci, since SF is a heal multiplier as well as a flat resist (it buffs Emitters by a good chunk).

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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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