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Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 11
02-27-2013, 10:41 AM
Hey funny thing there FBP3 with 3 FBP doffs for PH lol yeah that's funny
-"There is no such thing as an I win button!" "Um, Sir. Whats this button that says (I win) for then?"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 12
02-27-2013, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
But I am in the same boat as Antoniosalieri on this one. Back when they first came out, I made a thread on here talking about how I really didn't like how they basically made Nadion worthless because now everyone could use them.
While I think Eng does need some kind of boost, I think the word "worthless" is taking things out a stretch.

You have to be able to slot DEM for starters, a power on a 2 minute cooldown and you get an 8s weapon drain reduction from it, it's not the entire duration of DEM. You have to also dedicate a DOFF slot to it.

Further doffs only increase the drain reduction, and from what I've seen that's mostly irrelevant.


If you want to do this more often, now you need either 2 copies of DEM or DEM and Aux to Batts - probably 2 copies.

Putting this on basically any standard Escort for example, not even with Aux to batts, means you need to give up RSP, or EPTS or Sci heals.

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,673
# 13
02-27-2013, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
While I think Eng does need some kind of boost, I think the word "worthless" is taking things out a stretch.

You have to be able to slot DEM for starters, a power on a 2 minute cooldown and you get an 8s weapon drain reduction from it, it's not the entire duration of DEM. You have to also dedicate a DOFF slot to it.

Further doffs only increase the drain reduction, and from what I've seen that's mostly irrelevant.


If you want to do this more often, now you need either 2 copies of DEM or DEM and Aux to Batts - probably 2 copies.

Putting this on basically any standard Escort for example, not even with Aux to batts, means you need to give up RSP, or EPTS or Sci heals.
Well DEM is a 1:30 cool down not 2.

It can also be chained on cruisers... making tac cruiser do the job of the engi previously.

It can also be kept at global with aux to bat... meaning that yes again Tac Cruiser makes more sense then engi cruiser... every 45s I can have 8s of Nadion. Here is the kicker.... Nadion is a 3:00 cool down with 30s up time... meaning it is up 16% of the time.
With DEM 3 at global thanks to aux to bat... the Nadion effect of Francy Game killer is 17% of the time. On a much faster cycle meaning timing isn't near as much a factor.

Tac out Doing engi at engi along with tac buffs.... yes Engi is pointless as far as dmg goes.

That Tac Cruiser build will be a bit more squishy I grant you... still you got to love broken doffs... combo 2 seperate class killers and yes I consider it an issue.

The escort ya its not all that viable... it can work on a bop by giving up any real survivability outside of extreme offense.

Really You combo the Stupid Cutting Beam 2 piece proc with the DEM doff and a copy of aux to bat on a cruiser... and nothing the engi does looks worth the trade of the tac buffs.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 14
02-27-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Well DEM is a 1:30 cool down not 2.

It can also be chained on cruisers... making tac cruiser do the job of the engi previously.

It can also be kept at global with aux to bat... meaning that yes again Tac Cruiser makes more sense then engi cruiser... every 45s I can have 8s of Nadion. Here is the kicker.... Nadion is a 3:00 cool down with 30s up time... meaning it is up 16% of the time.
With DEM 3 at global thanks to aux to bat... the Nadion effect of Francy Game killer is 17% of the time. On a much faster cycle meaning timing isn't near as much a factor.

Tac out Doing engi at engi along with tac buffs.... yes Engi is pointless as far as dmg goes.

That Tac Cruiser build will be a bit more squishy I grant you... still you got to love broken doffs... combo 2 seperate class killers and yes I consider it an issue.

The escort ya its not all that viable... it can work on a bop by giving up any real survivability outside of extreme offense.

Really You combo the Stupid Cutting Beam 2 piece proc with the DEM doff and a copy of aux to bat on a cruiser... and nothing the engi does looks worth the trade of the tac buffs.
To add to this, Marion > Nadeon because it can be paired with what matters, the spike.

Marion + A2B's weapon power boost also lets you replace HYT with CRF. Without him you would of course take the hit to cannon dmg from power drain, so you take torps and have to give a little thought about putting the torps on hull, timing the BO accordingly. If it's CRF, **** it, just throw it all downrange, there's no shield penalty.

First, I acknowledge that I'm without shame.
TT, BO, CRF, APO
EPTS, A2B, DEM
EPTE, A2B, usually RSP*
PH, HE

SFM, Aux batt

Techx2-3, Marion, rotating based on *

Survivability includes battlecloak (with SFM if needed), APO/PH uptime, RSP, Aux batt+HE, embassy shield and hull heal. Currently running 3 piece Omega but plan to switch to KHG for MEF, so there's another source of survivability, but I might miss tet glider too much. Only tier 3 for both reps, T5 Rom cloak for another source.

Need to run, check aux, have it? A2B+evasive then engine preset. Don't have it, Aux batt, A2B, evasive. Not as amazing as deuts or an engine battery but it will do.

Side note, DEM through RSP is glorious. "Stupid BoP. Ha! RSP, what do you think of that? Moron, why is he still shooting? Why did he waste FOMM, RSP is up? Wait, what happened to my hull?"

With this build I cannot hang with an all cannon AP doff'd bug or defiant 1v1, so instead I go all cannon with APD instead of BO in order to mimic it, then bring something sneaky if possible instead of RSP like VM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,732
# 15
02-27-2013, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
Funny thing is this has been around for a while, and its only after the tric nerf do you find it lol

That may be, I know that I used two BOs with this doff on the Fed side, but Minimax is the first to implement it so devastatingly on the KDF side in a decloak alphastrike build. Everyone else pretty much copied him after they got wtfowned by him.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,732
# 16
02-27-2013, 12:05 PM
And about the idea that this doff somehow contributes to the further downfall of the Engie class:

It's way past that point. I prefer to fly my Scis now anyway; I heal just as well, mitigate damage more, and can crack hardened targets for my teammates.


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Last edited by snoge00f; 02-27-2013 at 12:07 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 17
02-27-2013, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
It can also be chained on cruisers... making tac cruiser do the job of the engi previously.
That's only if you think the Job of an Eng/Cruiser is high spike damage output (remember, we're talking about 8s window here with BO, so that's spike).

I don't see that as the case at all.

I know people want it to be something Engineer's can do, but if there are improvements to Eng I'd rather it be what they were designed for: Tanking/Healing.

Can you be creative and do something else with a build? Sure.

But how many people are going to recommend you make a Healing Tac?


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
It can also be kept at global with aux to bat... meaning that
It means that you have now dedicated 4 DOFF slots to making the build work, and that you have given up on any kind of realistic team or self healing.

You can't even functionally use Aux to SIF with any reliability at this point, and your HE and TSS will be weak.

You've also used 3 out of a potential 7 Lt or Higher Eng stations to make this work.

Assuming a Ltc Tac cruiser, that means 3 out of 4 of your available Lt or higher Eng stations.




Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
yes again Tac Cruiser makes more sense then engi cruiser...
For damage, which is exactly as it should be. (What else does Tac do?)

What you get is a Tac flying a Cruiser which is a build working really hard to make that combo work, and giving up survivability to do it.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-27-2013 at 12:15 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 18
02-27-2013, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
According to ACT when I recorded you yesterday in Ker'ret, emo joe, you hit an astounding 354 out 356 attacks with a 14% crit rate.
Amazing.

So how much did these boffs cost? (assuming they price jump after this thread).
pretty damned good considerign i dont have acc trait or acc wepaons huh? they are only like 5 mill on exchange

i would reiterate when the target engines are disabled/tractored, i get 35%+ crit rate with apa.

at least ne of those 3 bos will hit ye (crit)
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,673
# 19
02-27-2013, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
SNIP
It doesn't cost you that many slots... one dem 3 commander... one lt slot for aux to bat 1... the rest can be extends... Engi Team 3 (at global as well) and EPTS 3 (also at global) leaving you an RSP 1 which is enough to handle most spikes you will get yourself.

Is it as good a healer no... but as everyone likes to point out every team has 2 sci ships handing that job anyway.

My only point is if a team is going to field a cruiser at all... there is no way it needs to be engi.

Yes you give up 4 doff slots... and really who cares about that in a cruiser, for getting RSP at global... Extends at global... Engi Team 3 at global... along with the almost always on DEM 3 + 17% Nadion lite up time... combo that with another 20-30% uptime of nadion lite from the cutting beam... and ya Engi makes Zero sense.

What could engi do better ? Throw on a Sif 3 instead... sure its a great heal but shield healing is where its at... and extend isn't boosted by engi anything... and to get the same uptime you would either have to aux to bat or run 2 copies....

Engi brings nothing... at least before all these terrible doffs there was some point to having at least 1 engi healer.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,309
# 20
02-27-2013, 01:47 PM
Speaking as an engineer who has Marion on his crew, I'm happy he's here. He just adds to all the other abilities I have at my disposal to sustain my weapons power at ridiculous levels. DEM2+BO1+CSV1+BO3+Disruptor Autocannon fired pont-blanc with weapons power at 160+ will do horrible, horrible things to your target.


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