Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 21 o.o
02-28-2013, 08:26 PM
A rep system with rewards and perks is very much in the intrest of pvp players and the community. It will raise intrest in pvp. You are wrong. A rep system will not cause any stagnation. We already have 2 in use after all. We will just need a rank/ladder system to manage the Q.

Last edited by akurie666; 02-28-2013 at 08:28 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 22
02-28-2013, 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
A rep system with rewards and perks is very much in the intrest of pvp players. You are wrong. A rep system will not cause any stagnation. We already have 2 in use after all. We will just need a rank/ladder system to manage the Q.
I may be wrong... but it hasn't worked for any other MMO developer ever. I won't throw up a bunch of examples... I think anyone that has PvPed in any other title ever knows exactly what I mean.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 23 o.o
02-28-2013, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I may be wrong... but it hasn't worked for any other MMO developer ever. I won't throw up a bunch of examples... I think anyone that has PvPed in any other title ever knows exactly what I mean.
You're going to have to provide an example.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,595
# 24
02-28-2013, 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I may be wrong... but it hasn't worked for any other MMO developer ever. I won't throw up a bunch of examples... I think anyone that has PvPed in any other title ever knows exactly what I mean.
If you're wrong...then everybody that's PvPed in other games where they've gone that route is wrong too, eh?

It does two things:
1) Increases the gap between new and old players.
2) Increases AFKing as folks try to close that gap.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 25 o.o
02-28-2013, 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
If you're wrong...then everybody that's PvPed in other games where they've gone that route is wrong too, eh?

It does two things:
1) Increases the gap between new and old players.
2) Increases AFKing as folks try to close that gap.
Adding a ranking/ladder to the Q will address the "gap" and adding a anti-afk feature will solve the issue with afk players. I hear a ton of people saying why not but I don't hear anyone presenting alternative ideas.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,595
# 26
02-28-2013, 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
Adding a ranking/ladder to the Q will address the "gap" and adding a anti-afk feature will solve the issue with afk players. I hear a ton of people saying why not but I don't hear anyone presenting alternative ideas.
Like you've said here...it's more than one thing. It's simply unlikely that more than one thing will be done. Many of the issues with STO, imho, are because of trying to fix a tree while ignoring the forest...not taking into consideration the plethora of variables and how they may work together in unintended manners...
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 27
02-28-2013, 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
You're going to have to provide an example.
If you insist here are a couple I have played in the last year... I won't go back any further then that.

RIFT - 6 months after release there pvp was 100% stagnant. (they admitted this) They admitted it in posts and conversations with the community when they started back tracking. Reducing the number of PvP tiers... and removing a ton of mid level PvP gear. Of course they have already lost a ton of PvP players, and frankly the game will never get the momentum it had back.

TOR - Tor choose the PvP gear route... and I don't think I need to go into details for anyone that PvPed there.

Neither one of these tittles was a flawless game in terms of PvP, of course neither is STO. Bottom line however PvP rewards where implemented badly in both. (and frankly I don't much care if it sounds offensive... Trion and Bio are both better developers in general then Cryptic)

Both of those games would have been better to implement a system more akin to Anets GW2 system... where PvP is a system of its own. Where all pve items / skill creep is removed from the equation. It makes both the Pve kids happy as they can continue to get shiny toys, because there are no balance concerns with new gear. It makes the PvP folk happy as everyone has access to the exact same level of gear when pvping... the only person to blame for a loss is yourself.

I found when I did PvP in Tor... the only people that defended high Time sink PvP bonuses where the pvp kids... that enjoyed using there gear advantage to beat on pugs. It was always funny getting those types in matches and slapping them around... although I would find that enjoyable here... as I do now when some douche pops his Rom T5 skill. I would rather have as level a PvP system as possible... and encourage all the new people (look at the boot camp numbers) to continue to play, and grow. When people know the playing field is level... and all that needs to be improved is themselves... well a handful of them will and they will grow the PvP community here.

I spoke out against PvP gear and skills... in both of those games... after experiences with even older games. PvP gear and stats destroy true PvP... and imo that is a fact that no Developer will ever overcome no matter how good intentioned the system is.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 28 o.o
02-28-2013, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
If you insist here are a couple I have played in the last year... I won't go back any further then that.

RIFT - 6 months after release there pvp was 100% stagnant. (they admitted this) They admitted it in posts and conversations with the community when they started back tracking. Reducing the number of PvP tiers... and removing a ton of mid level PvP gear. Of course they have already lost a ton of PvP players, and frankly the game will never get the momentum it had back.

TOR - Tor choose the PvP gear route... and I don't think I need to go into details for anyone that PvPed there.

Neither one of these tittles was a flawless game in terms of PvP, of course neither is STO. Bottom line however PvP rewards where implemented badly in both. (and frankly I don't much care if it sounds offensive... Trion and Bio are both better developers in general then Cryptic)

Both of those games would have been better to implement a system more akin to Anets GW2 system... where PvP is a system of its own. Where all pve items / skill creep is removed from the equation. It makes both the Pve kids happy as they can continue to get shiny toys, because there are no balance concerns with new gear. It makes the PvP folk happy as everyone has access to the exact same level of gear when pvping... the only person to blame for a loss is yourself.

I found when I did PvP in Tor... the only people that defended high Time sink PvP bonuses where the pvp kids... that enjoyed using there gear advantage to beat on pugs. It was always funny getting those types in matches and slapping them around... although I would find that enjoyable here... as I do now when some douche pops his Rom T5 skill. I would rather have as level a PvP system as possible... and encourage all the new people (look at the boot camp numbers) to continue to play, and grow. When people know the playing field is level... and all that needs to be improved is themselves... well a handful of them will and they will grow the PvP community here.

I spoke out against PvP gear and skills... in both of those games... after experiences with even older games. PvP gear and stats destroy true PvP... and imo that is a fact that no Developer will ever overcome no matter how good intentioned the system is.
Those arn't facts. They are your opinions.

Last edited by akurie666; 02-28-2013 at 08:55 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,276
# 29
02-28-2013, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akurie666 View Post
Adding a ranking/ladder to the Q will address the "gap" and adding a anti-afk feature will solve the issue with afk players. I hear a ton of people saying why not but I don't hear anyone presenting alternative ideas.
Ladder systems further destroy games.

The issue will be this...

Lets say they add 6 Ranks... and each ladder Que... would include 2 ranks... so 1-2... 3-4... 5-6.

After a month or two.... there will be a few issues.

1) there will be very little new blood coming into the 5-6 Rank... meaning those people get board and start leaving the game.

2) if Pvp uptake isn't large enough the low level ranks also start starving for que pops.

Ladder systems sound good on paper... but even in games with 10x the pop of this one those issues come up. In STO at most times there is just enough people in the ques to pop a handful of games in an evening. Splitting that population even in half would be bad.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 275
# 30 o.o
02-28-2013, 08:57 PM
With the right incentive players would be attracted to pvp. Your opinions tend to be very drab and dim. I, on the other hand, have high hopes for the future of STO and especially pvp.
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