Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,459
# 31
04-30-2013, 02:26 AM
Personally, I do still run with Energy Siphon, though not all that much for the drain aspect; mostly, my carrier uses it as a power source rather than a debuff, since it does still provide a decent increase to all power levels. Of course, my Romulan character is definitely going Tactical. It's the class I haven't tried, and seems to be the one the devs don't nerf on a regular basis... seems a good idea to me.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 54
# 32
04-30-2013, 01:05 PM
I think the nerf was done in an effort to make tyken's less of an 'I win' button and more of a support power. And while at first glance it does look weak on its wn, people need to remember that it needs to be looked at in a team environment. It can be laid by multiple ships, stacking the drain, and combined with several other powers to also enhance it through synergy.

it should also be taken into account that while it may not completely disable a target, even a minor loss in power levels reduces that target's effective strength by lowering resists, reducing weapon damage, and lowering the effectiveness of its own heals etc.

The game is, after all, meant to be a challenge. I mean I can appreciate that some people find it fun to be able to stomp over anything they see without fear of reprisal, but for most players that quality doesn't stay fun for long. It loses the thrill when there is no challenge. It loses worth and makes it hard to feel any sense of accomplishment.
---------------
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 507
# 33
04-30-2013, 01:53 PM
Problem is, it was only an "I win" button provided you combined it with people ready to blast a target to bits. It really made the game 'not all about dps' because the ships that could do this weren't designed for dps; it was pretty much the only teeth the science ship had left and was more about teamwork than anything else. They've pretty much gone way too far in the nerf for it. Seriously, it's a "why bother?" situation when you can spec heavily and focus on this ability, when for half the skill points cost and effort you run a tac toon with cannons that's far more effective now?

In a Sci vessel with an Eng toon for example, I was able to resist two Kar'fi's using Tykens Rift III and Siphon Drones at the same time in pvp. This was pre nerf. If someone could tank it like that pre-nerf then I don't see any logic to having it obliterated at all?

Think I can put my argument more simply and better - Tykens Rift III pre-nerf made this game a lot more fun. Without it, the game has become a lot more bland and boring.
KDF Future with Cryptic. Fact.

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Last edited by vitzh; 04-30-2013 at 01:59 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 34
05-01-2013, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crownvic2door View Post
Oh yes I do have the purple doff set for the aftershock affect and I noticed that it did make a good bit of difference its main affect is slowing down ships so you can hit them with the cannons, not so affective in PVP. You are correct about the damage bit, but it does do a tiny bit but no I wont use that unless I have to deal every bit of damage I possibly can. (clock running low)
Indeed... I have never once been held by a GW III in PvP... It seems to basically have absolutely NO effect in PvP other than some very minor damage and possibly some pet spam clearing ability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by espiritas View Post
I think the nerf was done in an effort to make tyken's less of an 'I win' button and more of a support power. And while at first glance it does look weak on its wn, people need to remember that it needs to be looked at in a team environment. It can be laid by multiple ships, stacking the drain, and combined with several other powers to also enhance it through synergy.

it should also be taken into account that while it may not completely disable a target, even a minor loss in power levels reduces that target's effective strength by lowering resists, reducing weapon damage, and lowering the effectiveness of its own heals etc.
The problem here is that there was always a great way of getting out of being Tyken's into submission... MOVE. Most Escorts already blaze around so fast that if you did not hold them down already they were never going to be touched by a Tykens. The usual victim was that super tanking Cruiser and even that could be hard to drain to death with Emergency Powers and Batteries, Dueterium Burn, and Evasive to get away if they saw Tykens hit.

Moreover, if you use things like Tachyon Beam these days it has basically 0 effect on all player ships running a decent setup (that is with NO Power Insulator skill) thanks to all the gear with Insulators and how POWERFUL the Insulator skill is.

Also, they do not balance anything in this game for team play very well. I mean dear Lord... The amount of damage you can deal by stacking Attack Pattern Beta and Fire on my Mark with several Escorts is mind numbing.


These abilities were really what made Science worthwhile. They were the things that made Science ships WORTH fearing if you were against them and worth LOVING if they were with you. Now seeing a Science Vessel on your side just makes you think "Oh great... There goes some much needed DPS... I hope he will at least heal me." and if it is against you the thought is usually "LOL! Can we say easy kills!?".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 35
05-03-2013, 05:46 AM
so flying over this thread i notice that it is NOT me who just sux at science... the Class actually does suck by now.

tried the Intrepid, hated it
tried the Atrox, hated it
tried the Vesta, hated it

i thought it was just me, that i just sucked at using Science Ships / abilities.
or that i just didn't FEEL like being helpful because there is no visual feedback for me when i try to drain energy from another player (is my stuff even doing something or just a sparkling shiny effect? i can't even tell... what i can say for sure is that Ships with 6 weapon slots and 2 tac consoles are not doing any damage at all with their pew pew guns)...

sooo... this thread shows me, it is not just me, the class actually does utterly suck and no matter how hard i try i would never have fun with it anyway.

OK noted, boycott Sci Ships /done
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 374
# 36
05-11-2013, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Could be worse. You could be an engineer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjokruhlica View Post
I remember when Tyken's Rift III shut down anything it hit. Ah, the good ol' days of being a sci....
Quote:
Originally Posted by espiritas View Post
I think the nerf was done in an effort to make tyken's less of an 'I win' button and more of a support power. And while at first glance it does look weak on its wn, people need to remember that it needs to be looked at in a team environment. It can be laid by multiple ships, stacking the drain, and combined with several other powers to also enhance it through synergy.

The game is, after all, meant to be a challenge. I mean I can appreciate that some people find it fun to be able to stomp over anything they see without fear of reprisal, but for most players that quality doesn't stay fun for long. It loses the thrill when there is no challenge. It loses worth and makes it hard to feel any sense of accomplishment.
Good time to bring up another post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=658731

Anything not advantageous to a tac is nerfed, so the only logical conclusion is to nerf tacs and level it out. Please read/support.

If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,198
# 37
05-11-2013, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by espiritas View Post
I think the nerf was done in an effort to make tyken's less of an 'I win' button and more of a support power. And while at first glance it does look weak on its wn, people need to remember that it needs to be looked at in a team environment. It can be laid by multiple ships, stacking the drain, and combined with several other powers to also enhance it through synergy.
by this logic, dhc's power drain should go up exponentially to stop dakka boats being the 'i win' button they commonly are.
Cryptic.
Figure out and address the players path of least resistance to reward. this one thing is THE consistent factor undermining all your efforts. be that crafting, raids or starbase projects.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 378
# 38
05-12-2013, 11:01 AM
I just happened to catch BBCA showing "Night Terrors". I could not help but think of this thread as I was watching the Enterprise try to escape a Tyken's Rift for an entire episode. It draining the ship's propulsion before it could be utilized. Draining so much power, they could not even replicate complex elements to create a large enough explosion to free themselves. And thinking about how STO just kind of craps all over the whole idea.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 374
# 39
05-12-2013, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xapocalypseponyx View Post
I just happened to catch BBCA showing "Night Terrors". I could not help but think of this thread as I was watching the Enterprise try to escape a Tyken's Rift for an entire episode. It draining the ship's propulsion before it could be utilized. Draining so much power, they could not even replicate complex elements to create a large enough explosion to free themselves. And thinking about how STO just kind of craps all over the whole idea.
Heh, yeah. But then again,they didn't have to appease tactical escorts when writing the script.

If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 378
# 40
05-12-2013, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegashinzon View Post
Heh, yeah. But then again,they didn't have to appease tactical escorts when writing the script.
In a parallel universe, the first episode of TNG featuring Klingons as aggressors airs...

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