Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,228
# 41
02-28-2013, 10:16 AM
I've been in several PvP matches where I am flying the only non-lock box ship. I've been in many, many more where they are in the majority. Everyone points to the bug as OP, but quite frankly, I think all of them (except maybe the new Dominion ships) are OP.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 42
02-28-2013, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
The problem is, with them releasing more powerful stuff in a lockbox, through random chance... such powerful items will become needed to play the game and compete with other players. Showing that powerful weapons/items etc are not earned like they are in most MMO's, they are simply bought and down to luck...

Thats one of my main concerns.
There's so much wrong with that post. You assume that having less crap in a lockbox means increasing the power of lockbox items - what if, instead, it means making all of the rare prizes desirable in some way? New, very rare costume pieces or other character customization, new ship materials, new ship patterns, things like that - what if they make it like, say, a TCG booster pack where you're guaranteed to get a rare that might be any number of things, but is still a rare? Something doesn't have to add power to be desirable.

In addition to that, point me to any lockbox ship aside from the Jem'hadar Attack Ship (and even that one's arguable) that is hands-down the best in its class and is needed to be competitive with other players. No one needs lock box ships to stay competitive in PvE or PvP. You can easily play this game at a basic level of competence without spending a penny on it, and can remain competitive in top-tier Fleet and C-store ships without spending a penny on it.

Again, nothing that's required to be a competitive and able player has ever come out of a lockbox, so I don't think that it's a huge concern.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 43
02-28-2013, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusty8mac View Post
I've been in several PvP matches where I am flying the only non-lock box ship. I've been in many, many more where they are in the majority. Everyone points to the bug as OP, but quite frankly, I think all of them (except maybe the new Dominion ships) are OP.
Really? The Wells/Orb Weaver is better than the Multi-Mission Science? The D'kora beats out the Assault Cruiser Refit? The Galor is better than an Advanced Heavy Cruiser (or, for a more accurate comparison, a Vor'cha-R)?

There are definitely non-box ships (and I'm not counting the Lobi ships associated with boxes, as they're not random and can be obtained by anyone) that are competitive with any of the box ships (with the arguable exception of the JAS, though people talk about beating them in non-box ships often enough).

Edit: And to further my point from my last two posts, ALL of the lockbox ships are within reach of a player who wants to spend the time to pick up some EC and buy them from the exchange, again JAS excluded - its demand is sky high due to perceived quality and synergy with the most recent lockbox release. Literally anyone can have these ships without having to personally spend real money on the game.

Last edited by darkkindness2; 02-28-2013 at 10:22 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
# 44
02-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Honestly I don't even try to get lock box ships. I buy a few master keys with stashed zen from converting dilithium or from buying them 'low' on the exchange and take a few spins at the lottery to see what I'll get. Usually I get enough 'nice' things that it was worth it but I'd never just keep trying to get a lockbox ship... I never have and never will... I prefer zen store ships (and love my Chel Gret Christmas present as well) and do just fine in both PVE and PVP in them. I tend to PVP in the Chel Gret and PVE in my Vesta though I do take the vesta into PVP from time to time as well.

Bottom line: Lock boxes are for the filthy rich... I dabble at them but, I, like most players (I suspect) don't try to win the lottery with them by buying endless keys. I let the whales do that. I also am happy to let the whales run around in their 400 million EC Bugships while I slaughter them in my Breen Chel Gret because most of them are lousy pilots anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 45
02-28-2013, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusty8mac View Post
I've been in several PvP matches where I am flying the only non-lock box ship. I've been in many, many more where they are in the majority. Everyone points to the bug as OP, but quite frankly, I think all of them (except maybe the new Dominion ships) are OP.
I totally agree with this sentiment, they appear much more then they should in PvP and ruin the unique aspects of both factions. I do consider them to be OP in a sense because they have much better stats.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 659
# 46
02-28-2013, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
The problem is, with them releasing more powerful stuff in a lockbox, through random chance... such powerful items will become needed to play the game and compete with other players. Showing that powerful weapons/items etc are not earned like they are in most MMO's, they are simply bought and down to luck...

Thats one of my main concerns.
I would agree with you, if STO were a PvP game. Since STO is not actually a PvP game, your point is moot.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 47
02-28-2013, 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
FYI, Stahl mentionned two different possibilities after lockboxes:

...

- improving lockboxes. He said that in an interview recently. While I'm not sure it's a good idea, because it means that they will introduce even more powerful stuff with power creep issues, it's in the works.
Same problem. Thing is that a typical F2P game seems to be selling things as a product, when they are actually a service. Granted, there is typically little to no extra money needed to actually maintain new "products" (except for general code maintenance). However, as STO is ultimately a service, they need a continual cash flow to keep the devs going and continue making content, keep the lights on, etc. STO is not on a CD that you can take home, it's on a server and that server needs to have people to keep it running.

And people will only buy so much product - especially if you frustrate them once they've slowed their spending by making their products continually less competitive/useful. Frustrating a customer is usually not a way to encourage them to return their spending to previously high levels.

I think what this boils down to is "product" versus "service," and it seems that unless it is addressed, the massive weak point of any game with an F2P model is the treatment of service as product.

Ironically, at least for me, this makes it LESS likely I'll spend money on an F2P game, as I want games I play to be around for a very long time. This hasn't stopped me from subscribing, though, as I feel that's a fair price and way to "help out" on my own. That said, it doesn't make me overly eager to run off to the Z-Store.

Last edited by red01999; 02-28-2013 at 02:41 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,228
# 48
02-28-2013, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkkindness2 View Post
Really? The Wells/Orb Weaver is better than the Multi-Mission Science? The D'kora beats out the Assault Cruiser Refit? The Galor is better than an Advanced Heavy Cruiser (or, for a more accurate comparison, a Vor'cha-R)?


Obviously enough people besides myself believe this, since I see more of the lock box ships in PvP than the other ones that you mention. I have no trouble in maintaining my own against any of the non-lock box ships you mention, but am always at a disadvantage against most of the lock-boxes. Okay, the Tholian ships aren't all that.

And I will agree with you, that if you can't beat them, you probably are going to have to join them.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 49
02-28-2013, 04:11 PM
v
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyryck View Post
Coffee makers, Coffee cups, coffee, bottled water, water coolers, refrigerators, microwave ovens, desks, desktop computers, cubicle pieces, keyboards, mice, monitors, servers, electricity, light bulbs, paper, pens, network connections, network jacks, network cables, power cables, chairs, benches, building rents, spare hard drives, NAS, plastic utensils, phones, phones jacks, phone systems, phone lines, salaries, wages, taxes, tips, trash cans, trash can liners, water, bathroom cleaners, janitors, coders, programmers, artists, secretaries, typists, folders, notepads, pencils, sound recording equipment, microphones, speaker phones, email servers, email storage, storage closets, wiring closets, wiring, tables, etc etc etc...
If your entire revenue stream is going only towards office upkeap and not towards bettering and fixing the game it's time to consider cutbacks.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS

Last edited by lordagamemnonb5; 02-28-2013 at 04:15 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 104
# 50
02-28-2013, 04:27 PM
Come on folks, it's not going to change. Oh, the packaging might but the premise never will. Until the lights go out in the server room it will be an endless cycle of incrementally better ships/equipment that generate $ for PWE. They will continue to skirt the P2W line as closely as possible, and monetize whatever they can.

There's no shame in that, it's a business. The only business of business is business, and profit>all.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:21 AM.