Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 51
02-28-2013, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I've been reading this thread carefully and didn't want to post in here but when I read this i was like

The team size has doubled in a year, which means all your complaint about a low quality game and not enough investment is wrong. Maybe you don't like the season 7 content (but most people praised it when it's been released anyway, I remember unending threads saying how awsome new romulus and the 2 new stfs were), but you're unfair when you say there's no investment.
A lot of hardcore fans have a bad case of "No True Scotsman" in just about everything they opine on the topic. Shrug it off for your own sanity.
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Last edited by twg042370; 02-28-2013 at 04:20 PM. Reason: To be nicer about it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 52
02-28-2013, 05:49 PM
Of course, we have to take into account that Cryptic chose the Free-to-Play model that now exists in STO. Personally I feel this has always been a recipe for disaster. I cannot think of one F2P game that has come close to the popularity of the leading MMO. (WoW and EvE).

Wow had its problems but at least it never begged for my money to get the latest items etc... I only ever bought the Celestial Steed for my own vanity and because I choose to. The problem is, if you put no money into this game, you are looking at one long, boring and frustrating grind.

I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful (Guild Wars is not included in this because you actually bought the game first). To me, they are just the last recourse of the desperate in which developers admit that their product is not worth paying for.

Perfect World - Never heard of it before Cryptic was bought

WoW - Around for 6 years, continually the LEADING MMO and has never been Free to Play (Except the Level 20 Trial).

Which one is the success story and which one is not?

Its the fact that Cryptic beg for our money for products that are extreamly low quality and require a number of "fixes" because they do not work as "intended" from release. Its like watching somebodies dad become homeless on the street, you care about them but not enough to give them the constant cash they keep asking for.

Last edited by warbird001; 02-28-2013 at 05:53 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 559
# 53
02-28-2013, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful.
Although I've agreed with you on many an issue, that is a pretty ignorant statment. For example, World of Tanks and Mech Warrior Online both released as Free to Play, and The Secret World (from what I learned while playing the closed beta) had a subscription just long enough to build up capital before going F2P (one could tell by playing the game the F2P was the intent with that one). Lord of the Rings Online is still going strong as well with their hybrid model.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS

Last edited by lordagamemnonb5; 02-28-2013 at 06:53 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 54
02-28-2013, 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
Although I've agreed with you on many an issue, that is a pretty ignorant statment. For example, World of Tanks and Mech Warrior Online both released as Free to Play, and The Secret World (from what I learned while playing the closed beta) had a subscription just long enough to build up capital before going F2P (one could tell by playing the game the F2P was the intent with that one). Lord of the Rings Online is still going strong as well.
I personally, am not a lover of Free to Play games because they constantly bug you for money like a little child begging for candy. It just annoys me how that can be an effective sales tactic and how nobody else finds that annoying. I would rather pay a subscription and have access to all the game has to offer. Additional extras I would like to be "cosmetic" only so they are not needed, even to improve game stats.

I just annoys me how money-grabbing this game and others can be.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 727
# 55
02-28-2013, 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyryck View Post
Lock boxes serve to sustain and support this Free to Play game so that you don't have to spend one single dime on playing all of the content available.

C-Store purchases serve to sustain and support this Free to Play game so that you don't have to spend one single dime on playing all of the content available.

If you want the fancy costumes (in STO's space version of your avatar - ships) then that will cost you money, time or both.

Cryptic hasn't broken PvP. PvP players have bought into the min/max'ing of the game mechanics which leads to only one mathematically "correct result of perfection". And since there can only be one "correct result of perfection" from all that math, nothing else can or ever will be equal in stature. Which leads to complaints and comments of the game being a joke because now all PvPers have to hunt down that perfect ship in order to be perfectly competitive.

Cryptic offers alternative costumes to suit most every discriminating taste. But "there can be only one" perfect ship for PvP.

KDF players ask why they don't get 3packs of ships like the Feds do. Very same reason applies. If the offered ship can not equal that "correct result of perfection" then they will not bother to buy any ships. So Cryptic loses money on making "imperfect" Klingon ship costumes and decides logically not to chance losing money or development time to provide any more ships to the Klingon players.

Anyways, enough of my bent, twisted thoughts and reasoning's. Ya'll can go back to blaming Cryptic for Cryptic not reading every individuals mind in order to meet every individuals expectations of what STO should be, for those individuals.

I'll go back to whaling and supporting STO so that ya'll have something to complain, moan and groan about. For Free.
Total agree on lockboxes... a friend of mine bought the big fat JH Carrier for 800 Lobis or basically 160? and I in my well more of less great outfittet 45? kumari escort (i use the engi version) do come very close to his dps, its like only a 5% difference or something which can alwas be contributed to the sircumstances like be dying needlessly and stuff like that.
So i dont see any lockbox ships being totally overpowered or something.

But - as a mathematician myself I have to say there is no reason why there cant be more than one optimal ship. With correct balacing its well perhaps hard to achieve but not impossible. There can always be more than one optimal solution to a problem not just one.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 559
# 56
02-28-2013, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
I personally, am not a lover of Free to Play games because they constantly bug you for money like a little child begging for candy. It just annoys me how that can be an effective sales tactic and how nobody else finds that annoying. I would rather pay a subscription and have access to all the game has to offer. Additional extras I would like to be "cosmetic" only so they are not needed, even to improve game stats.

I just annoys me how money-grabbing this game and others can be.

It's not that no one finds it annoying (on the contrary I'm sure many find it annoying), it's that it is the current business model craze and it does make the developer money.

WoW and EVE were the right games at the right time, which is why they are still largely subscription based. However, this game would never have survived being a sub game strictly because of the lack of content.

Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.

Nowadays, if you do not relese with the same amount of content that WoW has currently, you will not survive. If you do not want to release with that much content, you must do F2P, or else no one will give your game a second look.

Like it or not, Free to Play is the model of the future (with the occasional LotR like hybrid model). Heck, I'm pretty sure game consoles will soon expand on their downloadable offerings and offer more free games (just paying the whatever a month/year subscription fee).
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS

Last edited by lordagamemnonb5; 02-28-2013 at 07:09 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 57
02-28-2013, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Escorts would return to the way they were as "glass canons" or the "mages of STO", Cruisers would become useful again at shielding escorts and science vessels would again become powerful.
TLDR; a weekly QQ thread trying to piggy-back off lockbox QQ because the "whah cruisers are UP" QQ is basically ignored at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
A guaranteed unlock for every character on an account. That's great value.
There are contradictory systems at work here. Per character rep grind? I don't care how much perceived value is in the account wide C-store unlock; I'm not grinding more rep, so I'm not seriously rolling an alt, and so there's really no value in the account wide C-store unlock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.
I can't decide if SWTOR went MMO as a form of DRM, or if they really thought they could cash in on Blizzard's action.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 58
02-28-2013, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
It's not that no one finds it annoying (on the contrary I'm sure many find it annoying), it's that it is the current business model craze and it does make the developer money.

WoW and EVE were the right games at the right time, which is why they are still largely subscription based. However, this game would never have survived being a sub game strictly because of the lack of content.

Look at what happened to SWTOR and how fast that game went F2P, strictly because that game had nothing to offer but a good story. People will not fork over $15 a month for an online single player game only, and SWTOR suffered.

Nowadays, if you do not relese with the same amount of content that WoW has currently, you will not survive. If you do not want to release with that much content, you must do F2P, or else no one will give your game a second look.

Like it or not, Free to Play is the model of the future (with the occasional LotR like hybrid model). Heck, I'm pretty sure game consoles will soon expand on their downloadable offerings and offer more free games (just paying the whatever a month/year subscription fee).
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.

Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 366
# 59
02-28-2013, 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Of course, we have to take into account that Cryptic chose the Free-to-Play model that now exists in STO. Personally I feel this has always been a recipe for disaster. I cannot think of one F2P game that has come close to the popularity of the leading MMO. (WoW and EvE).

Wow had its problems but at least it never begged for my money to get the latest items etc... I only ever bought the Celestial Steed for my own vanity and because I choose to. The problem is, if you put no money into this game, you are looking at one long, boring and frustrating grind.

I do not think anyone can label Free-2-Play games as successful (Guild Wars is not included in this because you actually bought the game first). To me, they are just the last recourse of the desperate in which developers admit that their product is not worth paying for.

Perfect World - Never heard of it before Cryptic was bought

WoW - Around for 6 years, continually the LEADING MMO and has never been Free to Play (Except the Level 20 Trial).

Which one is the success story and which one is not?

Its the fact that Cryptic beg for our money for products that are extreamly low quality and require a number of "fixes" because they do not work as "intended" from release. Its like watching somebodies dad become homeless on the street, you care about them but not enough to give them the constant cash they keep asking for.
Your main flaw is comparing the game to the 500 pound gorilla of the MMO world, since at least the design stages of CO and most likely before Cryptic hasn't attempted to compete with WoW, no MMO can currently as it has the highest amount of active subscribers of any subscription MMO in the world.

That means it has a larger budget, larger dev team, and an actual advertising budget that can go beyond banner ads and the occasional Magazine ad.

Attempting to compare the success of an MMO to WoW is pointless, as has been said multiple times, it was just the right game at the right time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.

Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
I am very glad that many MMO developers and publishers disagree with you, otherwise it would be a very quiet world on the MMO front and even WoW would have likely died years ago.

Last edited by bluedarky; 02-28-2013 at 09:02 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 995
# 60
02-28-2013, 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Am I the only person who thinks, if you do not have the resources to make a game with content to rival WoW or EvE that you should just not bother until you do? This game would be a lot better if that were to happen and same goes for a lot of F2P MMO's. Old Republic included.
Cryptic did not have the time to have the same amount of content as WoW. They were still bound to the same deadline as what Perpetual had. If they would have waited til they had the same content level, we would not be having this discussion as STO would not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
Like it or not... WoW is the benchmark MMO... this game had a unique concept of both Ground and Space that was supposed to make it compelling, however instead of making this unique experience even better, the devs are wasting time building ships that are not really needed and not fixing bugs that have been around since launch.
Really? How many times does this have to be said? Ship artists do not fix bugs. Ship artists do not write stories. Ship artists makes ships. Only ships.
If you believe the sky is the limit, you are aiming too low. We must reach beyond the stars - Ambassador Otungku
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