Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,138
# 11
02-28-2013, 02:04 PM
If you try to think about STO as a long-play MMORPG, you will get very frustrated with the game. Try thinking about it as a single-player game with some multi-player maps, and it gets a lot more bearable. Quick leveling, casual flight controls, all of this stuff is what you would expect from a SP game, so if you think of it that way it is a lot less irritating. It actually becomes more interesting--they managed to monetize a single-player game by charging money for things you need after the missions (IE, bank slots).

There's no room to add long-term resource gathering skills or craft trees or anything like that. They killed the RP potential in the crib--Star Fleet officers flying Tholian space craft... okay that's insane. The combat system will always be simplistic. There is no future for this game beyond what it already is. Stop thinking about it. Its sims-space, with Star Trek licensed artwork, that was too complicated to run on consoles. That's all it will ever be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 220
# 12
02-28-2013, 02:09 PM
there's nothing wrong with the f2p/p2w model as it's implemented in sto. it needs to make money, and it's actually one of the best implementations out there. it's possible to get pretty much all the content, items and unlocks without paying real money. thats a lot more than can be said about most other games.

but no one would play the game for only that reason. people play either because it's fun, or because they like star trek. since its not terribly fun, and likely draws in small numbers in that way, it has to rely on star trek fans, which is logical and as it should be. but it's in that regard that it's a missed opportunity.

i believe it could easily be the most popular mmo, if it really felt like star trek. right now, i seriously doubt that more than 1% of star trek fans on this planet have tried the game, and the number that liked it and stayed beyond their first day is likely far less than that.

imagine if sto could capture 10% of star trek fans. that would probably make it the largest player base of any mmo. but i believe it's possible to capture 30-50% of the total star trek fans. as someone else said, a large majority of star trek fans likely have high speed internet and decent computers.

it would take a lot of changes to really make sto feel like star trek, but that's what it would take to bring in those masses of casual fans. sure, it's a large project, but i'm sure a determined and dedicated team could pull it off in a year or two. yes, there have been numerous improvements to the game in the last three years, but i'd say that 90% of those improvements only made it a better game, but not a better star trek game.

what the dev team really needs to do is stop taking things from star trek and reshaping them to fit into their mmo mold. they're doing it backwards. they use star trek as the starting point, and the end result is something that's kind of fun, and kind of reminds you of star trek. instead, they need to see star trek as a close representation of the end result, and adapt what they have to match that end as closely as possible.
Fleet: Stargate-Union
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,657
# 13
02-28-2013, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
The minute the flow stops, PWE is not going to go, "We need to listen to the players to find out what needs to be done so they'll start spending money again. No. They will call a meeting with Jack Emmert and tell him to have STO shut down. Jack will do it because he wants to keep getting paid. STO goes away, and we will have no STO to play. STO becomes a nice little tax write-off for PWE.
List three MMORPGs that PWE has shut down. Remember, they bought Cryptic to get this game, this development house, and this engine. They're here because they want to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blevok View Post
what the dev team really needs to do is stop taking things from star trek and reshaping them to fit into their mmo mold. they're doing it backwards. they use star trek as the starting point, and the end result is something that's kind of fun, and kind of reminds you of star trek. instead, they need to see star trek as a close representation of the end result, and adapt what they have to match that end as closely as possible.
Star Trek is a television show. A successful game can never be a television show, it can only be a successful game with elements from the TV show. It must be a game first and Star Trek second, or it'll just be a fond memory.

What the devs need to do is fit things MORE into an MMO mold. The primary failings of this game come from the attempts to deviate from core MMO concepts, not from the attempts to meet them.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,107
# 14 More Trek
02-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Well it has star trek ships it has the costume and I'm a fan off startrek but to say STO is startrek nah...
If I walk true STO I see bits and pieces not finished part off story lines, you go from one story on to another very confusing.

I like the game but indeed it isn't startrek at all maybe 2% because it looks like it nothing more then that.
If Cryptic want's to score and let the player feel that there in a Startrek MMO they have to do some things first.

1. Finish Story telling
2. Polish gameplay a lot
3. Make interaction with the crew possible
4. Give the player options to do something inside his ship like minigames
5. Put besides the war at least another 60% more exploration
6. Devs play true storylines and make notes how to begin and make an end ...
7. Continue the line with eng sci and tac or rewrite the story without the option
8. Make it posible for players to switch between torpedo's for exsample Quantum or Photon
9. Give the player controll over green, yellow, or red alert or make an escape if needed
10. Finalize the klingon war and more Voice Overs


I think if cryptic can inplememt this if reading this post witch I doubt you allready 10% closer to a trek game then it is now.
This game as it is now it's purely based on income witch I can understand and what's not wrong but I would love it if they give back the startrek feeling it should have.
More playable species perhaps or let a captain be an captain on a starship.
And stop makeing Starwars stuff because like those suits and tholian suits look more starwars then it look like startrek.

Now for a fact I know that most off the Devs at Cryptic are Startrek Fans at least they clame to be startrek fans but I don't feel it and if you are a trekie you also would have doubs about this game being startrek.
It like an JJ Abrams startrek movie so not Startrek or like Startrek Enterprise such a failure it only live a few seasons and maybe its because off the influence off PWE but I doubt that.
Well I said enough and I doubt they read it or would like to answer it so why I do this because I would like to play this game for years to come but they realy have to make it more trek thats for sure....

Greets
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 332
# 15
02-28-2013, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
List three MMORPGs that PWE has shut down. Remember, they bought Cryptic to get this game, this development house, and this engine. They're here because they want to be.



Star Trek is a television show. A successful game can never be a television show, it can only be a successful game with elements from the TV show. It must be a game first and Star Trek second, or it'll just be a fond memory.

What the devs need to do is fit things MORE into an MMO mold. The primary failings of this game come from the attempts to deviate from core MMO concepts, not from the attempts to meet them.
I completely agree with this. I think a common trend that happens is most players who are active on the forum, keep saying "Cryptic needs to listen to the players", and "Cryptic need to do this..." and "cryptic should add this..." but not many players realise just how much goes into the game.

I have suggested before that I think Cryptic/PWE need to show the players where they work, the size of their servers and the constant maintenance that goes in them, the constant battles they have with hundreds if not thousands of cyber attacks and hacks everyday. The money that goes into content development, designs, and gameplay. I think what Cryptic and PWE have done is awesome. If Cryptic listened to every player, then every ship would have a cloak, have 40k hit points, and fully armed with bio neural warheads with a quick cooldown. Dilithium would rain down from the sky, and we would all get a million EC bonus just for logging on.

I think Cryptic's biggest issue, is if they listen to the players too much. We could just end up with a space PvP shooter rather than a comprehensive MMO.

Personally, i think STO is absolutely amazing. Can you even conceive how much goes into the design of a new ship? I have no idea, but i can hazard a guess that it is a lot. Car designers spend millions on designing a new car, and that is whilst the design is still on a computer. I think more love needs to be shown to the many dedicated people who work in and around STO.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 989
# 16
02-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmako View Post
I completely agree with this. I think a common trend that happens is most players who are active on the forum, keep saying "Cryptic needs to listen to the players", and "Cryptic need to do this..." and "cryptic should add this..." but not many players realise just how much goes into the game.

I have suggested before that I think Cryptic/PWE need to show the players where they work, the size of their servers and the constant maintenance that goes in them, the constant battles they have with hundreds if not thousands of cyber attacks and hacks everyday. The money that goes into content development, designs, and gameplay. I think what Cryptic and PWE have done is awesome. If Cryptic listened to every player, then every ship would have a cloak, have 40k hit points, and fully armed with bio neural warheads with a quick cooldown. Dilithium would rain down from the sky, and we would all get a million EC bonus just for logging on.

I think Cryptic's biggest issue, is if they listen to the players too much. We could just end up with a space PvP shooter rather than a comprehensive MMO.

Personally, i think STO is absolutely amazing. Can you even conceive how much goes into the design of a new ship? I have no idea, but i can hazard a guess that it is a lot. Car designers spend millions on designing a new car, and that is whilst the design is still on a computer. I think more love needs to be shown to the many dedicated people who work in and around STO.
We can show the team respect, praise them for their hard work and effort, and thank them for providing us a fun game to play, but that doesn't mean we can't also call them out for mistakes, missteps, or places that could use improvement.

STO is a good game, but it's not great, and what many people see--on the critical side of the fence--is the potential for the game to actually be great. We don't always know what's best, but we do know what we like, and as long as we can communicate those things without using nasty words or getting personal, there's no reason why the developers can't or shouldn't listen to feedback and suggestions.

In fact, it was player suggestions that landed a few fans of the game jobs at Cryptic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 104
# 17
02-28-2013, 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplegamer View Post
We can show the team respect, praise them for their hard work and effort, and thank them for providing us a fun game to play, but that doesn't mean we can't also call them out for mistakes, missteps, or places that could use improvement.

STO is a good game, but it's not great, and what many people see--on the critical side of the fence--is the potential for the game to actually be great. We don't always know what's best, but we do know what we like, and as long as we can communicate those things without using nasty words or getting personal, there's no reason why the developers can't or shouldn't listen to feedback and suggestions.

In fact, it was player suggestions that landed a few fans of the game jobs at Cryptic.

There is a lot to be said for this post.

At the end of the day, this isn't really an MMORPG. It's an SP/co-op f2p/p2w game with a few nicely fluffed lobbies in it. For what it is, it's not too shabby.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 994
# 18
02-28-2013, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplegamer View Post
We can show the team respect, praise them for their hard work and effort, and thank them for providing us a fun game to play, but that doesn't mean we can't also call them out for mistakes, missteps, or places that could use improvement.

STO is a good game, but it's not great, and what many people see--on the critical side of the fence--is the potential for the game to actually be great. We don't always know what's best, but we do know what we like, and as long as we can communicate those things without using nasty words or getting personal, there's no reason why the developers can't or shouldn't listen to feedback and suggestions.

In fact, it was player suggestions that landed a few fans of the game jobs at Cryptic.
All true. I've occasionally wondered if it wouldn't encourage a more positive atmosphere here on the forums if the devs actively encouraged suggestion threads; it'd reassure people that their ideas are being listened to. Maybe even if the devs suggested things for us to brainstorm about; like if they've got something scheduled for discussion at a meeting the following week (say PvP, for example), they could post something asking the community to provide a little inspiration.

Sure, they'd probably get a lot of 'why are you wasting your time on that, when you should be fixing this?', but it might help overall.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 19
02-28-2013, 05:00 PM
I mean this only as constructive criticism.

As someone who came in late in Season 6 and has been around for all of 7, I think this is a good game, but not a great one. After a few months of play, my impression is that this game has to this point been built on a philosophy that seems like having 10 things that are kind of cool but could be more, instead of 5 things that are really great and done to full effect.

I find this concerning.

Season 8 will be a point where I take a good look at whether this is a continuing long-term thought process, or if they stop adding "new features" long enough to actually flesh out the existing ideas that are already here.

I think those existing ideas, if fleshed out, would be a tremendous game. Things like adding extra missions to the game you access through a fleet starbase so it's more than a flying Dilithium trash compactor but has actual use as a hub for your fleet. Making the interiors of ships more useful so those Zen bridge packs appear to be more than a pure cash grab. Continuing to expand the story, PvE queues, and PvP queues outwards, and not just looking for the next cool feature that doesn't relate to those. Those are just examples of possible suggestions to take existing things and fill them out more, in interesting ways.

I like that this game gives you real choices about what you want to do. There's plenty of single player options. there are some team options, if you wish. There is some PvP, if you wish. This is good. It doesn't force anyone to be pigeonholed in any one thing that they don't wish to be. But I do want to see more. There are a lot of things in this game that are half fleshed out. If they get totally fleshed out, this game could really be something. Star Trek is a tremendous license to work with, it's just a matter of filling in the gaps.

I want to see existing game systems explored to the fullest before they go adding more things that are half done. That's my only big concern.

Forget about trying to capture "more Star Trek fans". A huge core of Star Trek fans are in their 40's or older. They don't give a toss about your video game, my video game, or anyone else's video game. And they never will. Don't try and make a TV show on the internet. Focus on filling out your game systems in interesting ways that make use of a powerful fantasy world.

I feel like there are currently enough possible features in the game to accomplish this. It's just a matter of actually going through with it now. But it isn't there yet.

Let's also not forget, there's been one successful pure MMO in history. One. There's no evidence whatsoever that there will ever be a second one. Continuing to offer a good range of totally fleshed out options is certainly in the game's best interests.

In terms of the pay structure, I'm on record as much preferring this "you can play the game, but the shiny things cost you" model used here to the "hahaha all the actual game content is locked behind pay walls" model. The Star Wars Online game is the second model. It's complete and utter trash, as is every other video game in history ever built on that formula. An embarrassment and the waste of a tremendous license. There's absolutely nothing remotely appealing about that as a game model at all. There is no way small games running on that model will survive the next 5 years.
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Last edited by tsurutafan01; 02-28-2013 at 05:02 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,990
# 20
02-28-2013, 05:11 PM
I'm pretty sure the Dev's do listen to feedback with the game on the forums, but not the feedback that insults them or the feedback where the game would need a complete overhaul.

Like it or not this is the game, and it's not going to turn into a game you played back in the 90's or early 2000's. yelling at the dev's and name calling is not going to turn this game into Bridge commander online or Star Trek 25th anniversary online.

The feedback they want would be in the realm of what the game can do already not what you wish it did. Which is why it may seem like the foundry and Pvpers get listened to a lot because most of their complaints are in the scale of what is already established in the STO game engine and programming.



Last edited by neoakiraii; 02-28-2013 at 05:20 PM.
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