Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 51
03-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by istvaanshogaatsu View Post
I mean, why experiment with an unconventional build when you can just equip the same thing every beanhead beside you did, and pretend it's your skill working all that magic, not a completely broken weapon system that lets you kill anyone else in seconds.
If 2 players have identical loadouts ("equip the same thing..."), with everything of the same mk level and rarity, with identical BOff powers etc, and one player can consistently beat the other, how is it NOT skill that's getting them the kills?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 134
# 52
03-15-2013, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
If 2 players have identical loadouts ("equip the same thing..."), with everything of the same mk level and rarity, with identical BOff powers etc, and one player can consistently beat the other, how is it NOT skill that's getting them the kills?
Because they're using overpowered weapons, and their skill isn't much of a factor when you can just faceroll across your damage buffs and end another player in 3-4 seconds of alpha fire.

Using the best fit that everyone else is using isn't skill, it's conforming. Congratulations on being better at conforming, I guess. Real skill there.

Know what I use? Torps. Know why? Because all the "pro PVPers" I met in this game told me to roll a cannon build. Now I pick their bits out of my bussard collectors, and harvest hate mail for beating up bugships in my ridiculous totally not PVP worthy build.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 53
03-15-2013, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
If 2 players have identical loadouts ("equip the same thing..."), with everything of the same mk level and rarity, with identical BOff powers etc, and one player can consistently beat the other, how is it NOT skill that's getting them the kills?
Because that wouldn't fit into the narrative istvaan is trying to advance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by istvaanshogaatsu View Post
Because they're using overpowered weapons, and their skill isn't much of a factor when you can just faceroll across your damage buffs and end another player in 3-4 seconds of alpha fire.

Using the best fit that everyone else is using isn't skill, it's conforming. Congratulations on being better at conforming, I guess. Real skill there.
So your argument is that DHCs are so overpowering that there's absolutely zero way to defeat them?

Except...

Quote:
Originally Posted by istvaanshogaatsu View Post
Know what I use? Torps. Know why? Because all the "pro PVPers" I met in this game told me to roll a cannon build. Now I pick their bits out of my bussard collectors, and harvest hate mail for beating up bugships in my ridiculous totally not PVP worthy build.
So which is it? Are DHCs so bonkers that nothing can touch them? Or do you just not like cannon boats because you catch flak for having an unconventional build?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 134
# 54
03-15-2013, 07:34 PM
Are DHCs bonkers? They can kill most ships in PVP in around 4 seconds. So yes.

Cannon builds are undeniably harder to beat than all other setups in PVP. Not impossible, but they're the only setup that makes me wary, because of how fast they can kill. No other weapon system *can* kill that quickly, which is what makes them OP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 169
# 55
03-15-2013, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madblooddoll View Post

Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by chandlerashari
Lol look at this giy lololol look at this guy
Also next time you address me - speak English. I honestly don't understand your first "sentence" at all.
fell out of my chair laughing at this.
Captain Moe
U.S.S. Prometheus
Fleet Multi Vector Advanced Escort
Resistance is futile
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 169
# 56
03-15-2013, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by induperator View Post
Take the Prometheus class it is an escort yet in the episode when it is first seen (Message in a Bottle) we see the ship disable a nebula class with a few shots to the warp drive and it used beams not cannons the Akira, Saber and all the other cannon "escorts" used beam weapons yet it didn't make their fire-power any weaker, the main reason escorts have more fire-power than almost every ship is because they can equip dual cannons.
ok ill go for making my ship incredibly over powered wooohooo oh yea.

seriously though you have a point but cannons are not going to be removed / changed to heavy dual beam banks / arrays. not only would there be a mass outcry but the amount of time it would take to go through the game and convert every single cannon weapon into somethnig else would be beter used making the KDF faction complete.

sorry if this offends you but its true.
Captain Moe
U.S.S. Prometheus
Fleet Multi Vector Advanced Escort
Resistance is futile
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 802
# 57
03-16-2013, 10:36 AM
There are no "cannon" weapons is star trek.

Strictly speaking we have particle emitters of various designs that fling charged particles into a specific direction.

Some Emmit a coherent beam from a singular big emitter (hint: excelsiors, the signe large emitter on the vorcha front or the warbirds emitter...) or a pulsed, bolt like blob of charged particles. (bop wing weapons for example.)

Its common in trek to have dual purpose emitters that do both beam and bolt as needed. The vorcha has displayed the ability to choose its firing mode the same way that warbirds can. Beams'n bolts still hurts and jolts...


Then we have the arrayed emitters, which are basically many small emitters placed into an array so they can hand over charges to the next one until discharged. More fancy than having dozens of bigger emitters all over your ship (the klingon way) and potentialy more devastating since depending on the size of the array and the number of emitters, some truly scary amounts of power accumulate there for the discharge.
bonus points for HUGE coverage in field of fire and minus points for being error prone. Its the "sophisticated" way, the star fleet way.


The defiants pulse phasers fall under the same category of weapons the bop wing weapons do: pulsed emitters.


There are no cannons. nowhere. people might call them that, but there aren't.



Obviously, having a beam discharge from an array into the direction you want it is naturally more complex a task then firing a single emitter - with an emitter you can basically make it a point and shoot weapon - like the bop wing weapons. point and shoot.


Bigger is better btw. A bigger emitter will be able to dish out more damage since the amounts of energy it can emit via charged particles is higher than the smaller ones.

Thats why people do not use hand phasers versus ships. It does no good. the amount of power the hand phaser can dish out is insignificant if we talk about space combat application.

Naturally bigger emitters are shown in star trek multiple times, usually firing bolts the size of several shuttle craft... at times AT shuttle craft... o.O.


So, do not fuss over this.

"Cannons" do not exist and are canon. Canon since the first time humanity used pulsed emissions. Which was like 100 years ago or earlier dunno exactly.




oh btw relating to the pic whoring: The Reliant and Enterprise were first. (i am not counting TOS since that was all over the place).

Last edited by reynoldsxd; 03-16-2013 at 11:55 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 136
# 58
03-17-2013, 01:08 AM
I was in an Infected Space today where not a single beam weapon was used. It really made me wonder if this is still a Star Trek game.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 276
# 59 reply
03-17-2013, 11:11 PM
yes cannons are cool bit so are beams especially following cef3 with beam overload 3 on same target then unleashing torpedo storm with armitages point defense torpedo console vut are they over powered no because most ships that pack them go poof really fast.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 66
# 60
03-18-2013, 07:25 PM
While I don't agree with every point that anyone has made, I will say this:

I am in favor of making ships more canon friendly. While this is not completely possible, It would be nice to work in. Things that were can do:

1) Fed ships give a bonus to all phaser beams and photon torpedoes. Also Tier 5 give bonus to Quantum Trops.

2) Kln Ships give a bonus to all disruptor weapons and photon torpedoes. Tier 5 give extra bonus. (I saw many kln ships use cannons in the shows.)

3 When Romulans become playable, they give a bonus to disruptor beams and plasma torpedoes. Tier 5 ships give a bonus to all Plasma Weapons, especially cannons. (They make the shift to plasma cannons beginning after the Dimonion war and continuing as they research Borg plasma weapons. (This can be seen by the Romulan Weapons in ST: Nemesis.))

4) Create a Heavy Phase Beam to equip to fed ships. It fires a heavier beam but with a smaller angle of fire. (Same could be done for other factions.)
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