Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,127
# 21
03-01-2013, 09:18 AM
But putting ships inside a GW and shooting them is DPS, so why isn't it valid?

Shooting STF targets which insta-heal shouldn't count, but you will consistently do it with CSV or BFaW, so you can get consistent numbers from the same mission.
Delirium Tremens
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 22
03-01-2013, 09:59 AM
Against the initial cube in ISE, I can do about 12k dps in a DPS Excelsior beam boat with my eng. Her overall ISE DPS is typically 7k. This is in PUGs.
Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
# 23
03-01-2013, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxhellspawnyxxx View Post
4:40 is an impressive time for CSE. Awesome.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,680
# 24
03-01-2013, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
But putting ships inside a GW and shooting them is DPS, so why isn't it valid?

Shooting STF targets which insta-heal shouldn't count, but you will consistently do it with CSV or BFaW, so you can get consistent numbers from the same mission.
Because without any context, the DPS with the maximum number of target will almost always win. Leaving the best mono target DPS out of the way (while being the most usefull against a gateway or a tac cube). For each target, you add the same number of DPS.

No references makes flawed DPS results. It rely heavily on the number of target, if they are debuffed or not, etc...


I'll give you an example, from a raid in ***, where you don't have any context. I'll tell you that on my raid, the casters (heal included sometimes) would make the most DPS. You would think my casters where better DPS than my melees. Sound kind of obvious.

However, I tell you how they managed to do that. The last boss of the raid I'm thinking have hundreds of little adds. He also have a huge HP pool, and take ages to kill, while he keep spawning his adds. Casters have countless of AOE, while melees have few and not powerful, and sustain heavy DPS for the whole encounter. With this single encounter, they usually out DPS any others melee for the whole raid. While the melees use to out DPS the casters for the rest of the raid.
I also add there are 2-3 encounter in this raid (can't remember the exact number). And the last one, the one where casters rules, is the most easy, and to be honest, I never see anyone wipe for this one.

Moral of my story : AOE from 1 encounter flawed the DPS result for the whole raid. My flawed result shows some of them being the "best", while other not. While in fact, it's the contrary.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 964
# 25
03-01-2013, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
But putting ships inside a GW and shooting them is DPS, so why isn't it valid?

Shooting STF targets which insta-heal shouldn't count, but you will consistently do it with CSV or BFaW, so you can get consistent numbers from the same mission.
erei1's answer was totally correct but I think hard to read.

Pretend bob tests his cruiser's damage in a missions where e fights on battleship, waits for a minute of downtime, then fights a second, waits a minute, then a third, and gets say 8,000dps sustained over the whole engagement.

Then fred does a mission where he fights 20 cruisers that constantly spawn waves of 5. He rotates cannon rapid fire and torpedo scatter volley constantly, never hitting fewer than 5 enemies per shot. Let's say fred manages to get a dps value of 16,000 sustained.

Can you see that bob is actually doing more damage?

And what if fred wasn't alone but had two allies in science ships spamming non-damaging debuffs that kept the enemy at negative resists pushing up fred's damage numbers even higher?

The conditions matter greatly.

Edit: What other games have done, is either nominate a single world boss and you time the kill in solo combat. Or use their equivalent of the foundry to make a test enemy used as a baseline. I remember people doing this all the way back under the Neverwinter Nights Auroroa engine to compare characters. Someone should make a simple foundry mission with a uber-survivable single boss with medium-to-low damage to use for this test. Say 500,000 hit points, but damage no higher than a d'dridex.

Last edited by gavinruneblade; 03-01-2013 at 11:00 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 26
03-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by westx211 View Post
No it does not.
Howbout a Charal?
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 27
03-01-2013, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starboardnacelle View Post
the most tactically deficient Cruiser in the game
I thought the plain vanilla Star Cruiser was the most tactically deficient cruiser in the game?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 545
# 28
03-01-2013, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinruneblade View Post

Edit: What other games have done, is either nominate a single world boss and you time the kill in solo combat. Or use their equivalent of the foundry to make a test enemy used as a baseline. I remember people doing this all the way back under the Neverwinter Nights Auroroa engine to compare characters. Someone should make a simple foundry mission with a uber-survivable single boss with medium-to-low damage to use for this test. Say 500,000 hit points, but damage no higher than a d'dridex.
Totally agreed on the whole post. I'm wondering if it's even possible with foundry tools to make a good test mission. Last I checked you had no way of designing really custom enemy encounters and could just place pre-made enemy groups.

I think SB2whatever in Tau Dewa makes for a decent test. Though it would make many people cry since the target is heavily shielded and alone. Suddenly their builds won't look so uber anymore.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 58
# 29
03-01-2013, 12:55 PM
My record is 13k dps in ISE with my Chel Grett.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,127
# 30
03-01-2013, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinruneblade View Post
erei1's answer was totally correct but I think hard to read.

Pretend bob tests his cruiser's damage in a missions where e fights on battleship, waits for a minute of downtime, then fights a second, waits a minute, then a third, and gets say 8,000dps sustained over the whole engagement.

Then fred does a mission where he fights 20 cruisers that constantly spawn waves of 5. He rotates cannon rapid fire and torpedo scatter volley constantly, never hitting fewer than 5 enemies per shot. Let's say fred manages to get a dps value of 16,000 sustained.

Can you see that bob is actually doing more damage?

And what if fred wasn't alone but had two allies in science ships spamming non-damaging debuffs that kept the enemy at negative resists pushing up fred's damage numbers even higher?

The conditions matter greatly.

Edit: What other games have done, is either nominate a single world boss and you time the kill in solo combat. Or use their equivalent of the foundry to make a test enemy used as a baseline. I remember people doing this all the way back under the Neverwinter Nights Auroroa engine to compare characters. Someone should make a simple foundry mission with a uber-survivable single boss with medium-to-low damage to use for this test. Say 500,000 hit points, but damage no higher than a d'dridex.
Um, no, guess you didn't read my posts?
ISE is ISE, if you GW all the spheres and AoE them that is your DPS. You can't compare different missions, its a ridiculous thought you could.

If someone else GWs the spheres and you kill them that is different, but its team work, and single individual encounters don't really mean you get that kind of DPS all the time.
Delirium Tremens
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
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