Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,080
# 1 Please Stop
03-02-2013, 08:46 PM
The only method Cryptic has used for a long time to promote balance within the game is that of MUD-flation and quite frankly it is getting old. Here are a few examples of where this has been applied.

Cruisers lack offense: So they release the Regent which is great but what about my Galaxy-R?

Sci Console as Dump Slots: Say hello to the embassy. Shame now the engineering console slots are now considered dump slots by many.

Beam power Drain: Romulan Beam and Omega Turret. But what if I don't want to use plasma weapons?

Torpedoes & Broadsiding: Regent....

Sci Vessels & AUX power: Vesta AUX cannons, shame they only come in phaser and work on a single ship...

I could continue but my point is simple. If it is felt that their is an issue with something being unbalanced would it not be better to tweak the numbers a bit and try to fix the problem instead of ... this?

And don't get me wrong, I love the idea of increasing options and gimmicks. The Andorian Wing Cannon and Quad Cannons are great examples of this. As are the reputation Torp weapons. They are well designed and don't change the balance equation or force a narrow set of options only for those who pay/grind/whatever to get them.

Just like you cannot spend your way out of debt, you cannot inflate your way out of unbalance without creating even more.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 2
03-02-2013, 11:22 PM
I think Cryptic has actually handled power creep fairly well. I do wish they would level out the playing field, but eh. Someday.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 3
03-03-2013, 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
The only method Cryptic has used for a long time to promote balance within the game is that of MUD-flation and quite frankly it is getting old. Here are a few examples of where this has been applied.

Cruisers lack offense: So they release the Regent which is great but what about my Galaxy-R?

Sci Console as Dump Slots: Say hello to the embassy. Shame now the engineering console slots are now considered dump slots by many.

Beam power Drain: Romulan Beam and Omega Turret. But what if I don't want to use plasma weapons?

Torpedoes & Broadsiding: Regent....

Sci Vessels & AUX power: Vesta AUX cannons, shame they only come in phaser and work on a single ship...

I could continue but my point is simple. If it is felt that their is an issue with something being unbalanced would it not be better to tweak the numbers a bit and try to fix the problem instead of ... this?

And don't get me wrong, I love the idea of increasing options and gimmicks. The Andorian Wing Cannon and Quad Cannons are great examples of this. As are the reputation Torp weapons. They are well designed and don't change the balance equation or force a narrow set of options only for those who pay/grind/whatever to get them.

Just like you cannot spend your way out of debt, you cannot inflate your way out of unbalance without creating even more.
Just so you know, the 'cruisers lack offense' thing is only a problem in the minds of people who can't seem to grasp the fact that Federation cruisers aren't supposed to dish out the DPS for anything other than sustained low-medium DPS. Federation cruisers are there to tank, heal others, and maybe do 1-2 other auxiliary roles (lay mines, clear enemy mines with Fire At Will, etc). I wish people would stop insisting that Federation cruisers be able to do stuff they're not supposed to do. If they want a DPS-heavy cruiser, they should make a KDF toon and fly a battlecruiser.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 4
03-03-2013, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Just so you know, the 'cruisers lack offense' thing is only a problem in the minds of people who can't seem to grasp the fact that Federation cruisers aren't supposed to dish out the DPS for anything other than sustained low-medium DPS. Federation cruisers are there to tank, heal others, and maybe do 1-2 other auxiliary roles (lay mines, clear enemy mines with Fire At Will, etc). I wish people would stop insisting that Federation cruisers be able to do stuff they're not supposed to do. If they want a DPS-heavy cruiser, they should make a KDF toon and fly a battlecruiser.
So let me get this straight.

In your opinion, If a fed character (80% of the player base) wants to do medium or better dps he HAS to fly an escort?

No wonder this has turned into escorts online. If Cryptic think like you that would explain everything. Its bad, but it explains a lot.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,046
# 5
03-03-2013, 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Federation cruisers aren't supposed to dish out the DPS for anything other than sustained low-medium DPS
This would be all well and good provided it was actually worth something in the game...

PvE
Enemies have such high health the only way to kill them in a reasonable time is with escort level damage
Enemies have such high damage levels that if it decides its killing you then it doesn't matter what you fly (thus rendering tanking AND sustained damage redundant)

PvP
Beam arrays bounce off EPtS and manual distribution alone, even RSF is overkill with 99% EPtS uptime again rendering sustained damage worthless
Rep passives ensure that even a high DPS beam user can't kill anything either because it heals without having to use a boff skill or it vanishes from sensors (rendering sustained damage AND sensor analysis redundant)

I run a fairly high DPS Eng cruiser (Fleet Excelsior, does close to 5k) but due to the above that feels positively weak so I put some team heals on to feel remotely useful...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,742
# 6
03-03-2013, 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Just so you know, the 'cruisers lack offense' thing is only a problem in the minds of people who can't seem to grasp the fact that Federation cruisers aren't supposed to dish out the DPS for anything other than sustained low-medium DPS. Federation cruisers are there to tank, heal others, and maybe do 1-2 other auxiliary roles (lay mines, clear enemy mines with Fire At Will, etc). I wish people would stop insisting that Federation cruisers be able to do stuff they're not supposed to do. If they want a DPS-heavy cruiser, they should make a KDF toon and fly a battlecruiser.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That sir is your Opinon NOT shared by most Federation Cruiser Captions

If you want that job Take it for the KDF We dont want the job it suks , Thats why we have the complaints

You can keep the KDF too if we wanted to be KDF we would be

The Canon FACT is Fed cruisers Spank KDF cruisers , Read some Gene roddenbury Canon

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse

Last edited by syberghost; 03-03-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,046
# 7
03-03-2013, 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That sir is your Opinon NOT shared by most Federation Cruiser Captions

If you want that job Take it for the KDF We dont want the job it suks , Thats why we have the complaints

You can keep the KDF too if we wanted to be KDF we would be

The Canon FACT is Fed cruisers Spank KDF cruisers , Read some Gene roddenbury Canon

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
I think that was overdoing it... He is entitled to his opinion as much as you are entitled to ignore it but this... it was unwarranted...

Last edited by syberghost; 03-03-2013 at 10:57 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 8
03-03-2013, 05:39 AM
The problem is that most think this is Star Trek, and that they are Jean-Luc or James T, and that they are out to save the universe in their starships, sorry to say but it isn't, your playing a bog standard D&D style MMO with a Star Trek skin.

Tactical is the Fighter class, like other D&D MMO's it's designed to do insane amounts of damage, but it's also meant to be rather squishy, swallowing potions like their going out of fashion.

Engineer is the Tank class, it's meant to do heavy damage, and at the same time be able to survive some serious damage.

Sci is the Caster class, it's meant to do moderate damage with weapons, and tie the enemy in so many knots with "spells" that it hasn't a clue wtf is happening, and at the same time help keep the other two idiot classes alive.

The biggest problem is the space skill tree, it doesn't matter which class you pick as we all have access to the exact same skills, this is wrong, each class should have it's own skills or restricted access to the other skills. That way you don't end up with Tacs being able to tank in an escort, Engi's in cruisers doing crazy DPS and dieing to quickly, and Sci's making such a mess that they are totally ****ing useless.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,228
# 9
03-03-2013, 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bejaymac View Post
The problem is that most think this is Star Trek, and that they are Jean-Luc or James T, and that they are out to save the universe in their starships, sorry to say but it isn't, your playing a bog standard D&D style MMO with a Star Trek skin.

Tactical is the Fighter class, like other D&D MMO's it's designed to do insane amounts of damage, but it's also meant to be rather squishy, swallowing potions like their going out of fashion.

Engineer is the Tank class, it's meant to do heavy damage, and at the same time be able to survive some serious damage.

Sci is the Caster class, it's meant to do moderate damage with weapons, and tie the enemy in so many knots with "spells" that it hasn't a clue wtf is happening, and at the same time help keep the other two idiot classes alive.

The biggest problem is the space skill tree, it doesn't matter which class you pick as we all have access to the exact same skills, this is wrong, each class should have it's own skills or restricted access to the other skills. That way you don't end up with Tacs being able to tank in an escort, Engi's in cruisers doing crazy DPS and dieing to quickly, and Sci's making such a mess that they are totally ****ing useless.
I wholeheartedly approve of this message

I have always hoped that the skill tree would be per career, which some shared skills pertaining to ship structure overall ie.:

weapons
torpedoes
deflector
shield
engine

Then each of the careers would be broken into their own trees of specialization allowing for hybrid builds to emerge.

Each career would still have TAC, SCI & ENG skills but each career would have a slight variation.

So for example take CRF.

The Engineer might have skill tree which enhance the CRF into a single phaser lance ability.

The Tactical might have a skill tree which enhances the rate of fire & dmg of the CRF.

The Science would have a skill tree which enhances the particle effects of the CRF with things like SST etc.

If the engineer wants to forgo the normal TANK role they would have a viable skill tree to affect a reduced TANK role with a more SIEGE engine kind of approach.

But there has to be a give and take. One cannot expect the cruiser and the engineer to still be able to heal with immunity + stats, AND on top of that start dishing out damage like the escort. That cannot ever work, in any MMO.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 03-03-2013 at 06:10 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 10
03-03-2013, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
In your opinion, If a fed character (80% of the player base) wants to do medium or better dps he HAS to fly an escort?
Do you want to be a DPS class? Then yeah.

If you'd rather be a tank or a healer, then probably not.
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