Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,475
# 11
03-07-2013, 12:00 AM
It's when the boxes are opened.

We know this because some players, due to a bug, were able to open the same box multiple times in a ten second window or so and get different contents.

Now, in WoW, loot (including boxes) is pregenerated. This is known because people started analyzing their file cache after server restarts. There, the system knows all dungeon loot possible when you enter the dungeon... and people who copied to the test server (as long as there were no hard code resets and the test server was using the same code version) were able to determine the content of boxes. (However, there were certain DB updates that would trigger all boxes to repropagate content. Hence, smart people there would copy to the test server, open a box, and if they were unhappy with it, wait for a DB refresh which would repropagate the contents of all issued boxes.)

Incidentally, this may vary by game engine but boxes containing different contents doesn't mean that they cannot be stacked in inventory. The system just has to know which box to pull from in what order. WoW allows some containers to be stacked while predetermining the contents.

STO... eh... I'm not sure. Snowballs can have unique timers (ie. one with 10 minutes of duration and one with 15) and be stacked together. And each snowball in the stack, I believe, melts according to its timer. Meanwhile, binding seems to be "by the stack" meaning that if you have bound and unbound versions of an item, they all become bound when placed into the bound stack.

I don't think it would be impossible in STO to stack boxes that had predetermined contents. Tricky, maybe, but not impossible.

However, we know that lockboxes generate loot upon opening because of the people who had one lockbox in inventory, opened it multiple times, and got different results.

As for them adjusting odds on the fly...

It might be possible to do this but why would they? They'd benefit the most from just keeping the odds low. They wouldn't raise the odds if sales went up and there's no need to lower the odds if sales go down because the number released will go down anyway. The only reason to arrive at this theory is if you're in denial about literally how many lockboxes are being sold and how many people are playing the game, particularly on new lockbox launch days.

Plus, Kestrel outright said they don't do this and I don't think Kestrel is a liar or is ignorant of practices. And there's no advantage in it. Like I say, if they ever raise the number available, it would work against their own sales. The only reason to believe this is disbelief over the number of people playing and buying lockboxes and/or that number of people playing and buying waxes and wanes by that much.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 12
03-07-2013, 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Plus, Kestrel outright said they don't do this and I don't think Kestrel is a liar or is ignorant of practices.
Coincidentally, this is exactly what they would say if they DID. So it proves nothing. After having been repeatedly lied to in the past, what makes you think anything they say has credibility? I have no idea how truthful this "Kestrel" individual is, and he may even genuinely believe what he is saying this time, but given where he works, I would be very surprised if I could not find the evidence that he, too, either lies, or is a dupe of his masters. In any event, you never go wrong with expecting the worst from others. That's why they're other people, after all. Their otherness makes them intrinsically shifty and unreliable.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,475
# 13
03-07-2013, 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
Coincidentally, this is exactly what they would say if they DID. So it proves nothing. After having been repeatedly lied to in the past, what makes you think anything they say has credibility? I have no idea how truthful this "Kestrel" individual is, and he may even genuinely believe what he is saying this time, but given where he works, I would be very surprised if I could not find the evidence that he, too, either lies, or is a dupe of his masters. In any event, you never go wrong with expecting the worst from others. That's why they're other people, after all. Their otherness makes them intrinsically shifty and unreliable.
If you honestly believe they have repeatedly lied to you before, why would you be here on these forums?

I believe, at worst, they have little ability to follow through or accurately plan.

I think anyone who HONESTLY believes they have repeatedly lied should not only not spend money but should not play, even as a free player, and should uninstall the game and leave the community. I say this not as some kind of punishment.

I think this is the only appropriate response to repeated lies from a developer. I am here ONLY because I do not believe they have lied repeatedly.

But if a developer lies repeatedly, you should not only stop giving them money, you shouldn't play or be a part of their community. My participation in this community hinges on my belief that Cryptic has seldom if ever deliberately lied to its players.

But I think it's pretty much the moral duty of any player who thinks a developer is doing this to stop spending money, tune out, uninstall, and permanently abandon ship. Even continuing to play without spending money is unacceptable in that scenario as far as I'm concerned.

And, again, there would be no financial benefit in doing so. If this practice were done, its sole benefit that I can see would be sacrificing thousands of dollars in sales to create a false impression about number of players.

This would require some kind of diabological and arbitrary conspiracy that is executed far more flawlessly than any of the actual content they've released.

It is rude and absolutely inappropriate to assume ulterior motives of strangers online. Either you accept the conceit that they have none or you don't deal with them. It's daft, masochistic, and rude all at the same time to have interactions (even free ones) with people or businesses you accuse of ulterior motives. Either you choose to trust people and take them at their word or you really ought to cut ties with them totally.

Just my $.02 but I see no room for a middle ground on that and personally think seeking any kind of middle ground on that point is a recipe for becoming a miserable crackpot. Said from experience.

Either you trust that someone is generally honest or you cut them off and treat them like they don't exist. There's not really any safe middle ground, for me anyway.

It's much easier for me to believe that the game is incredibly volatile and that major features change several times a day and that when Cryptic says they're working on something, it means a five minute conversation has covered that topic (and that's all "working on something" means). That most "lies" come from simply failing to read developer comments *LIKE A LAWYER, DISSECTING WORDS*. I'm not always happy with the game.

But accusing anyone of habitual lying is unacceptable. It renders all discussion moot. Discussion can only exist between people with the assumption of general honesty. Accusing people of dishonesty doesn't allow for any kind of discussion. It's just a context for talking without discussion.

I can accuse you of shooting JFK or faking the moon landing or stealing $50 from my wallet without a basic assumption of general honesty.

Honesty does not require being accurate or truthful. But it does require the assumption that inaccuracy is the result of withholding information, error, or incompetence.

And on this kind of subject, frankly, for Cryptic to be lying would require them to be UNUSUALLY competent.

As-in, Borticus has database fixes that he wants to make but is too busy, what? Coding some kind of lockbox mechanism that provides no financial gain for Cryptic?

Because they'd make more money just leaving the droprate at whatever the minimum is. There's no advantage in adjusting it up when sales go up. There's no advantage in adjusting it down when sales go down. If there were a conspiracy, the only thing that would make sense is to tie it to a TIMER to adjust the reward cycle to be like slot machines and that would, again, require tech and a competency that we would see elsewhere if they could do that.
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