Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 516
# 11
03-06-2013, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
No, I asked somebody for a source on something that I had never seen said before and contradicts my own experience (as well as research into the matter).

I started playing RPGs in 1980.
I started playing MMOs in 1997.
Not sure what they mean either. 40 years ago would have been 1973. PCs didn't come around until a few years later. Unless I'm being too literal or they are referring to pen and paper games. I think they started early 70s.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,247
# 12
03-06-2013, 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohiap View Post
Not sure what they mean either. 40 years ago would have been 1973. PCs didn't come around until a few years later. Unless I'm being too literal or they are referring to pen and paper games. I think they started early 70s.
I figured they were referring to RPGs, which would fit in with the 40 year thing. Tabletop wargaming and so forth tended to two player...not multi-player.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 13
03-07-2013, 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I figured they were referring to RPGs, which would fit in with the 40 year thing. Tabletop wargaming and so forth tended to two player...not multi-player.
He's talking D&D, which is the tradition STO is rooted in. Not wargaming, which is debatably not an RPG but a strategy or tactical simulation.

And I won't say nobody at Cryptic is into wargames. I think Jack Emmert, Dan Stahl, and Thomas the Cat are all probably bigger into wargames than RPGs.

But STO is much less directly descended from Warhammer or Heroclix or any of that stuff than it is from tabletop games... and the lineage for the standard MMO is basically:

D20 multiplayer games (ie. D&D) -> MUDs -> Graphical MUDS (2D still images and, very late, animated Gifs and Doom style 3D) -> Ultima (2D with movement) -> Everquest (3D with movement) -> ******** style games.

I think you're looking at a different lineage altogether and not one this game is really based on.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,247
# 14
03-07-2013, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
He's talking D&D, which is the tradition STO is rooted in. Not wargaming, which is debatably not an RPG but a strategy or tactical simulation.

And I won't say nobody at Cryptic is into wargames. I think Jack Emmert, Dan Stahl, and Thomas the Cat are all probably bigger into wargames than RPGs.

But STO is much less directly descended from Warhammer or Heroclix or any of that stuff than it is from tabletop games... and the lineage for the standard MMO is basically:

D20 multiplayer games (ie. D&D) -> MUDs -> Graphical MUDS (2D still images and, very late, animated Gifs and Doom style 3D) -> Ultima (2D with movement) -> Everquest (3D with movement) -> ******** style games.

I think you're looking at a different lineage altogether and not one this game is really based on.
Um, I'm not sure how you misread what I said - I even stated that I believed the OP was talking about RPGs. The wargaming aspect only came into play in that statement for what else might have been multi-player type gaming around 40 years ago.

But again, that's the thing - those classes were not the original D&D classes.
And again, that's the thing - that's why I asked for a source...

Yet again, how did you miss the part that I've been playing RPGs for over 30 years and MMOs for over 15 years?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6
# 15
03-07-2013, 12:41 AM
STO pretty much transcends traditional MMO's. Since BOFF skills pretty much define your role in space (with different ship classes offerring better boff skills of a certain range). On ground, you have the choice between different kits to equip.

I would go so far as to say, there's more diversity in these three classes, than any other MMO. Only problem being you can't customise your kits on ground, but I hear that is "coming soon (tm)".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 16
03-07-2013, 12:48 AM
D&D this, MUDs that... yeah, well, my dad can beat up your dads.

On the subject of weapon ranges: I like the idea of adding more systemic differences between weapon types to make everything feel a tad less homogenous. On TV, the Defiant was shown to be insanely powerful at close ranges. This is already reflected by how cannons behave in-game, but beams could use a rethink. If beams aren't already set at "more power over longer distance," they really should be, even if the maximum range stays at 10k.

Moving the maximum beam range all the way out to 15k and limiting the heavier cannons to 7k could be interesting, but I'd have to see it in action rather than just on paper. My instinct (and/or being melted by escorts repeatedly in PVP) tells me that most escort pilots worth their weight in stem bolts could probably close the gap and still turn my cruiser into molten slag pretty quickly even with that new range advantage.

So, that added range for a beam-laden cruiser would give it a new edge, but probably no more of an edge than what a good escort already has.

...but surely this sort of design was already tested in beta and thrown out, right? Anyone have a memory of that?
---
Relax.

Last edited by delsaberedux; 03-07-2013 at 12:51 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,247
# 17
03-07-2013, 01:02 AM
Geko's happy with where Beam Boats sit and sees no reason to change that. The UGC folks agree with him. It's around 3.5 hours into the interview...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,953
# 18
03-07-2013, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by waladil View Post
There are 3 classes, and 2 ship categories.
There are more than two ship categories.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,953
# 19
03-07-2013, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Science are supposed to be Attack Magic, and Engineers are supposed to be the Healing Magic.
Hazard Emitters, Transfer Shield Strength, and Science Team are some of the better heals in the game that you can cast on a friendly target. They're not Engineering BOFF powers.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
# 20
03-07-2013, 07:30 AM
I chuckled to myself after I read most of these posts.
You all realize that a properly geared and traited Engineer tank in a cruiser can tank a fully MACO geared Tac officer in an escort?
Yeah, trust me. Works well. I tried tanking in an escort aaaand - yeah way to squishy. Cruiser all the way
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