Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 431
09-21-2010, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_House_of_Darok View Post
Awesome, thanks.

If I can bother you for another question, I've come across this post which suggests some performance improvements, but again it mentions adding these to the wine registry, and for some reason, I just can't figure out which file to edit and/or where they go. Any help there?
Since editing a registry is usually complicated for folks who aren't comfortable with doing so, much of what you could tweak is also in winetricks - or the most recent version of it anyway. The VertexShaderMode, for example, is in there, also near the bottom. Registry edits and performance tweaks are near the bottom of the gui within winetricks. Packages and software are all before those.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 432
09-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
Since editing a registry is usually complicated for folks who aren't comfortable with doing so, much of what you could tweak is also in winetricks - or the most recent version of it anyway.
Ok, cool. Guess I should have looked before asking. :p

Thanks again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 433
09-21-2010, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_House_of_Darok View Post
Ok, cool. Guess I should have looked before asking. :p

Thanks again.
No problem. My preference is always that people ask. A question can be answered. An incorrect assumption is often hardest to dispel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 434
09-21-2010, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_House_of_Darok View Post
3) I uninstalled wine and reinstalled it to try your two suggestions, but I didn't delete the .win folder nor my install of STO. Would that have affected my results upon following your instructions? That is, is there some benefit to actually nuking everything and starting over, or should I just be focusing on tweaking it from this point on, since the game is in fact working?
I missed this in the thread and I apologize. I think other posts struck me before this one did.

In answer, the software wine is separate from your 'wine bottle' or your wine prefix. There are various names, but they all amount to the same thing. If you called your directory .sto or something similar, then your wine bottle or WINEPREFIX is ".sto"

Nomenclature aside, uninstalling wine won't fix a problem unless the problem is specific to that version of wine. In general, setup issues are generally registry or settings driven within the wine bottle/prefix itself. My suggestion to start on a brand new installation of Star Trek Online without affecting an existing one can take one of two forms:

One (copy existing working environment to play with):
# cd ~
# cp -pdR .sto .sto-temp
# WINEPREFIX=".sto-temp" winetricks
# ... (etc)
# WINEPREFIX=".sto-temp" wine (path to command)

Two (create a new environment to play with):

# cd ~
# WINEPREFIX=".sto-new" winetricks
# ...
# WINEPREFIX=".sto-new" wine

In essence, you can have as many virtual windows environments as you have diskspace to accommodate. And, you can tweak settings until you're happy with the second instance without affecting the first. This is also very useful if you decide to play other games that require other settings.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 435
09-21-2010, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
In essence, you can have as many virtual windows environments as you have diskspace to accommodate. And, you can tweak settings until you're happy with the second instance without affecting the first. This is also very useful if you decide to play other games that require other settings.
Iiiinnnteresting. I have a good amount of free disk space, so I'll have to try that out. Sound pretty handy.

And if you're ever looking for a low-paying job in a run-down computer shop, I can hook you up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 436
09-21-2010, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_House_of_Darok View Post
Iiiinnnteresting. I have a good amount of free disk space, so I'll have to try that out. Sound pretty handy.

And if you're ever looking for a low-paying job in a run-down computer shop, I can hook you up.
I have a nice paying job in a fairly high-tech saavy company now. But, I do appreciate the offer. ;-)

(I'm a Linux Admin (who also works with Solaris and occasionally dabbles with AIX and HP-UX) and a Network Engineer. They realize these days that such a title is pretty unwieldy, so it's now "Senior Systems Engineer")
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 437
09-21-2010, 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_House_of_Darok View Post
I've been trying to install DirectX in Wine, but I haven't been able to successfully do it yet. Assuming I am able to accomplish that, would STO in wine actually use DirectX instead of OpenGL? Is it worth the effort of attempting that?
What people seem to be missing here... DirectX is not available on any OS Wine runs on. Even if you install Wine and DirectX, you still do not have DirectX. Almost all graphical DirectX calls are done in Wine with OpenGL, at least by default. Making a game actually run with OpenGL instead of DirectX will run MUCH better, but that is not possible with STO, it will only use DirectX. Wine has its own implementation of DirectX inside it... if you install MS's DirectX you are just replacing Wine's version... this can help sometimes since Wine's version often has problems and much of it is not yet complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post
DirectX is a proprietary library developed by Microsoft (originally developed 3rd party, then gobbled up by Microsoft, but that's beside the point). It isn't being "added" to Wine. People are installing it inside of Wine, and outside of its license. Otherwise they're forced to use OpenGL, which is a "layer" more so than DX that can talk directly to the hardware.

I'm not sure what you meant by "added" to Wine? Are you talking about 3rd party rewrites of the DX library or unlicensed installs of it?
MS DirectX is not being added to Wine. Wine's own "DirectX" is being added to Wine, much if it already being in there. This is made from scratch, not from reverse engineering anything from MS, which is why its so slow to be developed. its not hard to look at how a .dll responds to something, and make your own .dll that responds in the same way. unlike a "real" version of DirectX, it cannot go straight to the GPU to get things done, it has to go to the OS and use OpenGL, and/or other things that can get the job done on the current system. If Wine didn't have directx compatibility.. how do you think STO could run? STO cannot use OpenGL, its coded for DirectX only. and no.. you do not have to install ANYTHING from MS DirectX in Wine to get STO to run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post

On another note, and for me personally, I would still call Wine an emulator. Wine enthusiasts don't like to call it that, and it even states this on their myths page. Purists want to restrict the term "emulator" to just emulating CPUs. The definition of emulation itself, regardless of being applied to computers, still fits the bill for Linux. You're still adding a layer to emulate some components of a Windows environment on a different O/S. With that said I am a full supporter or Linux and Wine even if I'm a pragmatic PC person as well.
its not called an emulator because its not emulating.... its basically native implementations of certain libraries and APIs. By your definition running a DX9c game on WIndows with DX10 would be running under emulation... because DX10 is emulating DX9c. Or is it exactly the same but not considered emulating because the same company made both?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 438
09-22-2010, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doh123 View Post
What people seem to be missing here... DirectX is not available on any OS Wine runs on.
After reading other posts in this thread, I am given the impression cipher_nemo is trying to be helpful but has no knowledge of the issues involved on any non-Windows platform. Unfortunately, good intentions do not solve a problem or help other folks. It would have been better served to leave the answers to the folks who understand the problem and could answer it (like you and I have). He means well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 439
09-22-2010, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntKathy
After reading other posts in this thread, I am given the impression cipher_nemo is trying to be helpful but has no knowledge of the issues involved on any non-Windows platform. Unfortunately, good intentions do not solve a problem or help other folks. It would have been better served to leave the answers to the folks who understand the problem and could answer it (like you and I have). He means well.
I run Ubuntu and Wine on multiple PCs. I've also installed and used Gentoo, Fedora, and Debian Linux distros as well as FreeBSD and NetBSD BSD distros in the past. Please do not turn an argument into personal attacks.

I have a feeling our disagreement in based in terminology and communication between us instead of anyone being wrong. If you look at the history of OpenGL and DirectX, specifically early history and Microsoft's battle with SGI's over these you'd understand what I mean by the term 'layers'. DirectX was originally the only rendering engine to talk directly to the hardware. OpenGL can now do this as well, but not all things talk directly to the hardware in OpenGL when compared to DirectX (hence your correct comment about utilizing a little more CPU overhead for OpenGL).

You're a very knowledgeable person who has helped quite a bit in this thread and on these forums. But you recently wanted to argue with me about STO taking a performance hit in Wine on Linux. Why bother? If it runs smoothly for you, great. If it doesn't for others (even if they've tweaked settings), then so what? Wine is not a perfect solution for playing DirectX games, and everyone who's tried it can attest to that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 440
10-11-2010, 01:53 PM
I'm running Ubuntu 10.04 X64

I was able to install both IE7 and STO using PlayonLinux. However when the game tries to load, it tells me it is opening a web page and I need to use Konqueror or some other browser. It won't use IE7, even thogh I set it as the default browser when I was asked (It can't be set in PlayOnLinux).
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