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# 31
03-12-2013, 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by amosov78
Actually it was the Betazoid

Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
now thats a battleship!!
no, Skollulfr, you're thinking of a BattleAXE
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# 32
03-12-2013, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by oldkirkfan View Post
no, Skollulfr, you're thinking of BattleAXE
never heard of 'creative licence' have you...
Figure out and address the players path of least resistance to reward. this one thing is THE consistent factor undermining all your efforts. be that crafting, raids or starbase projects.
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# 33
03-12-2013, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by shockwave85 View Post
The way the -D went down in Generations was a contrivance to add shock and suspense to an otherwise somewhat dull movie. The BoP had their shield frequency and was therefore ignoring the shields. There's the one shot that bangs into the drive section I think is the lucky shot that did it. So, ignoring shields and a lucky shot. By all rights, Enterprise should have won that fight, but battles are chaotic like that.

Only thing that still bothers me is if an enemy is penetrating their shields, the first thing they'd normally do is rotate the shield frequency/harmonics/whatever. They did it with the Borg, obviously it would work better with the Klingons. If the shields are being rotated constantly by the computer, controlled from the tactical console, even having Geordi's VISOR bugged wouldn't have helped. Even if he was staring at the number all the time (which he wouldn't be), the delay between them seeing it and tuning their weapons to match would be too slow. Not that Enterprise could've known they were being spied on, but rotating the shields seems like a pretty standard procedure that they should have immediately started doing.

Yeah, I've always kind of agreed about them not rotating their shield frequency (seems like a smart thing, in case that can be picked up by sensors, which you would think some could if they were good enough). But this just highlights the writing for the show/movie, and why you can't apply it hardline to ship strength.

Generations was about our mortality and how to face it, and it did it in a variety of ways. I don't know if they were all perfect, but I do like the movie for that theme.
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# 34
03-12-2013, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by mb52 View Post
You know, I always did wonder what potential the galaxy could have had if they had made a real battle version of one. You know.. strip out everything sciencey not needed, get rid of all the extra quarters...
The one in Yesterday's Enterprise is the ship you are looking for. Designed an operated as a warship for the long klingon/federation war yet it was basically the same ship as far as combat goes.
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# 35
03-12-2013, 10:36 PM
Could have been because they were tight on supplies when it was built. Or quantity over quality.
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# 36
03-13-2013, 10:27 AM
Reminds me of the line from Insurrection from Picard. "Remember when we were explorers?"
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# 37
03-13-2013, 11:17 AM
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
I'm not talking about what it was seen doing on screen, I'm talking about the stats you can find on Memory Alpha. According to that the Intrepid has the same number and type of phaser arrays that the Galaxy was eventually upgraded to, and 5 torpedo launchers instead of 2 (although probably a smaller complement of torpedoes, no solid information on that there). Furthermore, the shields of the Intrepid class are far more advanced than those of the Galaxy class, and it is a far smaller and quicker target.
Okay, slow down.

Yes the Phaser strips are as numerous.
However they are actually much slimmer and shorter.
Based on what's stated in the TNG Technical Manual, they are made up of hundreds of individual elements and have a cummulative effect.
So while they are certainly up the same technology (Type 10) the ones on the Intrepid are (for lack of a better term) of a much smaller caliber.
There is actually solid information on the torpedo compliment:
The Galaxy carries *CORRECTION: 275* torpedoes and the individual launchers (actually 3, one is rear-mounted in the saucer, useless while the ship is in connected mode) can fire up to 10 (!) torpedoes at once (like a shotgun) or in rapid succession.

The shotgun effect looks like this:

Voyager carried a compliment of 40 torpedoes (2 Tricobalt, 38 Photon) and it was explicitly stated in "The Cloud" that they could not be replaced.
Which makes this absolutely hilarious:
(and shows how incompetent the writers were)

Also we never saw Voyager's indivitual launchers fire more than 2 torpedoes before they had to pause for a moment to reload.
And the 5th launcher (under the main deflector) was only ever used to launch probes AFAIK.
So it's 4 per side on the Intrepid vs 10 from the Galaxy.

As for the shields, they mught have been more advanced.
But what does more advanced mean?
That compared to a ship of the same size, Voyager had better shielding.
Also, the Galaxy was updated regularly at starbases, (the Enterprise-D even got a complete new warpcore in Season 7) so why would they not include all the advances from the Intrepid into the Galaxy that are applicable?

Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
And as far as the tac cube thing, it didn't really go that way. Voyager was defeated and ran twice before the final battle, in which they had significant help from a sphere, and still didn't actually destroy the tac cube, it self-destructed. Plus it was in the 7th season, so Starfleet had had a lot of experience fighting the Borg, an advantage they didn't have for the battles of Wolf 359 or Sector 001 (while the Borg did know practically everything about Starfleet, having assimilated numerous officers and crewmen).
Let's see:

In TNG:"I Borg", LaForge explicitly stated that they had downloaded information from Picard's experience with the Borg.
Since the Borg shared all information with everyone, Picard would have had as much information stored as Seven of Nine had.
They also had the wreckage from the Cube.
So for the events in "First Contact" (and the construction of of the "designed to fight the Borg" Defiant) they had that information available.
And remember how the Defiant ended up in "First Contact)
Also the Intrepid class was launched during the 7th Season of TNG and thus is no more advanced than any of the ships that fought the Borg cube in "First Contact".
In Voyager's Season 5 episode "Drone" a souped-up version of a Borg explicitly states "your technology is limited, I can not enhance it further" after its enhancements prove entirely ineffective against a sphere.
Thus at that time the technology Voyager had aboard was already at its upper limit and it proved totally useless against a Borg ship that was less powerful than the Tactical Cube from "Unimatrix Zero".
And suddenly Voyager can damage the Tactical Cube with the very first shot?
Without being blown out of the sky within the first seconds?
Unless they ripped out their entire weapons arsenal and shield system and replaced it with a new one off-screen this makes no sense whatsoever.

Please keep in mind what we see of the Cube in "First Contact" was after several hours of battle (the Enterprise was in the Romulan Neutral Zone and the first shots wer fired god-knows how far away from Earth) and even then the damaged non-tactical Cube could still kick some ships down with a few shots.

And if you remember the fight in "Unimatrix Zero", the result of the first fight between Voyager and the Cube was that Voyager had taken no apreciable damage, while the Borg ship' status was:
"The damage to their propulsion system is regenerating. They'll be capable of transwarp in less than two hours."
So the Borg ship's propulsion sytem was knocked out while Voyager was in far better shape.

The second engagement only ended this badly because the Borg pulled a "Star Trek 7" on Voyager.
Thus the Borg were reduced to the level of...cheating Klingons.
And in case of the 3rd engagement...well the Queen saw that the Cube could not win and detonated it.
Why should she have done so if she had had seen a chance of blowing Voyager out of the sky?

I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Last edited by misterde3; 03-15-2013 at 02:23 AM.
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# 38
03-14-2013, 08:36 AM
Oh my, I'm sill laughing and crying about the Betazoid Battleship...

Well played, well played indeed...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

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# 39 reply
03-15-2013, 02:10 AM
galaxy mrk x phaser arrays 2 torpedo launchers complement of torps from technical manueal 275

voyager same phaser types torpedoes carried 42 plus 2 tricobalt devices and a shuttlecraft replicator apparently torpedoes restocking was probably done by trading photo torpedo tech was widely available.

defiant 3 phaser pulse cannons 2 quantum torpedo launchers a couple of phaser arrays torpredo complement unsure energy weapons and shields more powerful because little ship was powered by heavy cruiser class engines extra defense she had ablative hull armor nearly a meter thick added shortly after arriving at ds9 plus she could cloak. nose of defiant was also a detachable weapon armed with 15 photon torpedoes

galaxy had ability to split in 2 second half was the stardrive section basically a battle cruiser

intrepid could do a better job targeting enemies because of advanced bioneural computers

defiant well she was designed for war but she should have had limited range because of her size and the oversized engine drinking up the antimater and deuturium like its going out of style.

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