Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 961
# 61
03-13-2013, 05:44 PM
*** Personally removed my post. Not worth the argument. ***

Last edited by linyive; 03-13-2013 at 06:00 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 62
03-13-2013, 05:56 PM
What you need:
- a vesta
- a pair of tractor beams
- one TBR
- not much heal (it's NOT your job)
- a graviton pulse console
- a confuse ability
- danube pets
- learn how to use your snb wisely: most of the times, after you forced an escort to use the reverse shield.
- learning that 1v1 makes no sense and isn't fun.
- an elite fleet shield
- an elite fleet deflector
- a sensor officer in your doff active roster so that escorts get no alpha strike (use sensor scan as soon as they engage someone at the begining of a match)
- the placate reputation perk + 1 or 2 male romulan blue tac boffs for the crit chance.

Also, get ready to receive a lot of aggressive and hostile PMs if you use such things. People really hate when you take control of their ships, but that's basically what you have to do. Your job is to take escorts at 0 speed, to harass them, to prevent them from doing damage, and to expose them.

Last edited by diogene0; 03-13-2013 at 06:00 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,414
# 63
03-13-2013, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
What you need:
- a pair of tractor beams
- one TBR
- not much heal (it's NOT your job)
- a graviton pulse console
- a confuse ability
- danube pets
- learning that 1v1 makes no sense and isn't fun.

- a sensor officer in your doff active roster so that escorts get no alpha strike (use sensor scan as soon as they engage someone at the begining of a match)
- the placate reputation perk + 1 or 2 male romulan blue tac boffs for the crit chance.

.
i completely disagree with these points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 64
03-14-2013, 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
i completely disagree with these points.
You may have some gentlemen's agreement with peps on this forum but I don't. When I see something that can make others throw stuff at their screen, it's likely to become a part of a more permanent build.

When you build a new ship for pvp, your first concern shouldn't be balance, it's not your job. You're here to do your best. And all these things are quite cheap by the way (except the ship), so it's ok, anyone can get this.

Last edited by diogene0; 03-14-2013 at 03:03 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 65
03-14-2013, 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
we have beat Pandas
Oh? Do you have a screenshot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
What you need:
- a vesta
- a pair of tractor beams
- one TBR
- not much heal (it's NOT your job)
- a graviton pulse console
- a confuse ability
- danube pets
- learn how to use your snb wisely: most of the times, after you forced an escort to use the reverse shield.
- learning that 1v1 makes no sense and isn't fun.
- an elite fleet shield
- an elite fleet deflector
- a sensor officer in your doff active roster so that escorts get no alpha strike (use sensor scan as soon as they engage someone at the begining of a match)
- the placate reputation perk + 1 or 2 male romulan blue tac boffs for the crit chance.
This advice varies from good to absolutely terrible. My thoughts:

-Vesta is good, so are the Wells and Recluse (the later with a jump console for getting subnukes)
-Tractor beams are an ability you can never have too many copies of on a team. That being said, only take a second copy if you can fit it in without too much of a sacrifice to your build.
-TBR can be decent, but isn't needed.
-Agree on SNB timing being crucially important
-Agree on 1v1's, especially for a sci/sci.
-Partially agree on elite fleet stuff. Safest bet for all levels of play is two piece Adapted Maco (mostly for the bonus to kinetic damage, but also for the quick start engines) with an Elite Fleet Res A covariant. For very high level play where you have an abundance of cross healing and most kills come from very quick burst attacks, put in Elite Fleet deflectors for the 10% CD reduction on science skills and slot in an Adapted Maco shield since it's a better buffer against spike damage with it's huge capacity.
-It is absolutely your job to heal. If you're caught up to the current metagame you're putting out a metric ton of healing. Anyone who says it's not a sci/sci's job to heal is clueless.
-Danube pets are obvious cheese. Graviton Pulse Generator is even worse, bordering on an I-win button. If all you want to do is create the most powerful build possible, go ahead and use them. If you're smart though you'll realize that they're crutches and they'll hobble you in the long run.
-You don't need a confuse ability, but if you do take SS you should also take the doffs that go with them, otherwise scramble is pretty mediocre nowadays.
-Agree that placate proc is good, but is really most at home on an escort. For a sci/sci, either passive works. I agree that romm boffs are good for tac slots.
-Use kinetic damage, which lets you lower your weapons power to 25, and put the rest into aux and shields. Either put three rapid fire transphasics up front for damage, or three chroniton torps for the debuff.

Last edited by hurleybird; 03-14-2013 at 07:40 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 66
03-14-2013, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Well snoge if it is that easy to counter teams wouldnt bother carrying extends at all. The fact is that people do use psw to counter it so now teams carry extends on every ship 2 copies on atleast 3 ships.
I don't think Pandas ever carries more than three copies between the five of us on a serious team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
if the skill was so useless and easily countered you wouldnt see every top premade in the game abusing it.
No one is arguing that ES is useless. Far from it, it's a great team skill. That being said, some teams have enough burst and coordination to break through extend heavy opponents, some teams don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
The fact is all these premades build there teams around it. So unless you have shockwave on every ship you will never break all extends
Break extends when you can, switch targets when you can't (targeting the guy who cast extends is a great tactic that TSI uses), brute force your way through when possible, and don't forget to about separation tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Nadeon console with photonic doffs is broken everyone knows that and if you use it your called an exploiter.
How is that relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
So heres a challenge to everyone if extends is so useless and easily countered dont use it lol. That will never happen.
Of course it won't happen, because it's a silly request. If you asked them nobody would stop using escorts or balancing shields, or drop all copies of EPtS either.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
# 67
03-14-2013, 08:19 AM
Hurley we dont fraps and screenshot our matches to post on the forums. If you say 3 copies on your team your full of it im sure thats why you said i dont think. Maybe because you havent been playing the game you have no clue whats going on in pvp. That 4 oddy team with mt in a bug only had 3 extends lol. What target the guy extending hes got an extends on him also. im not saying extends is unbeatable it just makes it easy to keep targets at full resist with little to no effort or skill wich is why you use it unlike you i dont like 2 hr matches with endless heals and extends counting on your 1 escort to be lucky enough to kill a target once every 10 minutes. The only reason i say anything about extends and heals is that the best counter to those teams is a heavy sci team and whenever we do counter it and beat it we have little girls in opvp cry about how we spammed them. Well sci spam beats heal spam. Hurley when are you going to say something that people havent learned 3 years ago that isnt just common sense. I would think as smart as you are you would have better ideas then this. Nadeon being broken is relevant if you use it you are exploiting a broken ability. Oh that never stopped you guys before why should it now. I know you will never put down your extends down its a crutch without it you will lose. We run all the time with no extends and win. Its actually a challenge we made to ourselves and its fun. We know you will never do this for the same reason you never see this hurleybird in a pug match he is afraid to die he spent a year and a half doing that in lore lol.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
# 68
03-14-2013, 08:53 AM
And if anyone wants to see an example of an extends fest watch the project october tourney video on youtube pandas vs trh. Every target has 1 extends on it most of the time 2 and sometimes even 3 lol. The first death look closely he has no extends. Im not exact on the final score or final time but i think the match took an hr and ended 4-3 lol. I would think that teams of this caliber could have found a way past those extends and got there 15 kills i guess its not that easy to counter. I bet that without extends that match would have had an end to it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 69
03-14-2013, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Hurley we dont fraps and screenshot our matches
That's too bad, because I can't find anyone who remembers this mythological match that supposedly took place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
If you say 3 copies on your team your full of it im sure thats why you said i dont think.
Well, we typically run three sci hybrid heal/debuff with two tac/burst. The tactical guys have other things they need to run, and engineering bridge officers are at a premium on the science ships so they run one copy each. Don't believe me if you want, but that's our ideal setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
That 4 oddy team with mt in a bug only had 3 extends lol.
Back when we ran sci cruisers (before the FAW nerf) it's likely we had teams with four copies. That's ancient history though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
What target the guy extending hes got an extends on him also.
Switch to the guy extending him. Work on getting enough spike and coordination together so that there's always a good chance the target you switch to doesn't have enough time to become focus healed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
im not saying extends is unbeatable it just makes it easy to keep targets at full resist with little to no effort or skill
I disagree with that. ES is far more effective with proper timing and coordination between healers. If you want to point the finger at abilities that don't require effort or skill, what do you think about running multiple copies of the time set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Well sci spam beats heal spam.
A proper mix beats both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Nadeon being broken is relevant if you use it you are exploiting a broken ability.
What does that have to do with ES being broken, overpowered or whatever it is your complaint is? Absolutely nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
Its actually a challenge we made to ourselves and its fun.
From the Jorf Guide:

"Be careful not to fall into the trap of excusing a bad build or team composition as a way to get practice via handicapping yourself. Using lower tier ships or items won't change the fundamentals your team needs to work on, but running an engineer in an escort will. Even though the engscort may provide some fringe benefit of making matches more challenging, fielding one will warp your team's play style and cadence towards a strategy that doesn't work, and is ultimately self defeating."

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
lore lol.
I don't see why you think this is an insult to me. Lore is proof positive of how a militaristic and hierarchic fleet structure destroys PvP potential. It's not like old SOB was any better either -- some fleeting glory with mass chroniton mine spam, but otherwise just as far away from the likes of old QEW and TSI. When Pandas was formed, at first by ex-lore members no less, we immediately wiped the floor with SOB over dozens of games and the only thing that changed was philosophy. That kind of transformation is confirmation of everything I've been saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
I bet that without extends that match would have had an end to it.
Recent Inner Circle, Pandas, TRH matches have been over quite quick despite ES use.

Last edited by hurleybird; 03-14-2013 at 10:31 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 412
# 70
03-14-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalous View Post
...inner circle has never beat us....
That is a false statement.


Please keep us out of your petty inter-fleet disputes.

Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some pew pew PVP action!
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