Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,044
# 31
03-14-2013, 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
You got a screenshot of said plate?
No screenshot, but a source.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,044
# 32
03-14-2013, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobang View Post
Oh and the Chaffee Shuttle is the size of a Car, you could park 2 of them inside the Defiants Bridge, i don't see where the problem is supposed to be there.
Except the only references to the size of the Chaffee that I know of is the DS9 Technical Manual, which puts it at 9 m, an author saying it was 7.6 m, and Doug Drexler's measurements of the CGI model putting it at7.9 m...either way, that's one helluva car!

Last edited by jeffel82; 03-14-2013 at 07:15 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 296
# 33
03-14-2013, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
4. Every shuttle is too big. Supposedly this too make them easier for players to "see", but there are actual sized shuttles/fighters in game.
Eh. Vulcan Tal'Kyr Support Craft is already huge compared to other shuttles.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,046
# 34
03-14-2013, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffel82 View Post
No screenshot, but a source.
So no plate, but an inscription on a foam test model.
That counts as...what?
Considering tests are done to...well test whether something is good or bad and the intact JH fighter in "The Ship" was embedded into 90 meters of rock and there were no 60 meters hanging out of the ground seems the test result was "too big".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,044
# 35
03-14-2013, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
So no plate, but an inscription on a foam test model.
That counts as...what?
In my opinion? It counts for nothing. I didn't want to say that, though...wanted people to draw their own conclusions.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,046
# 36
03-14-2013, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffel82 View Post
In my opinion? It counts for nothing. I didn't want to say that, though...wanted people to draw their own conclusions.
Thank you I appreciate that.
And (since I forgot that im my previous post) thanks for the link.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 37
03-14-2013, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by romuzarii View Post
Would this be so bad? Would the player helming said spec sized ships not have the correct view point on their screen? Or is there an already existing limitation in the coding for camera scroll in/out view?
If shuttles were to scale they would be a pain in the ass to see. They would be too small. The size they are has to do with gameplay reasons.

Also I believe they also stated it had to do with Camera limitations as well.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,190
# 38
03-14-2013, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
No, I'm too lazy to go look it up, I just retype it. Feel free to bookmark that post and propagate it in any such future discussions. You'll save me some time.
It might be cool to get a correctly-sized DS9 as a Foundry map, maybe.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 579
# 39
03-14-2013, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Yes, DS9 is considerably larger than was shown in the show.*

This is because when it was playtested at "real" scale, it felt very small. Designers wanted you to be able to fly around the station, in and out of the rings, through the upper docking arms, etc. If it were proper scale, only something the size of the Defiant or smaller would be capable of that, and even that would be a tight fit.
Why would that be a bad thing? I'm not sure why a cruiser of all things should be able to do that, nor should it be a priority for design.
I mean if one is that easily amused they could get the same level of entertainment from a piece of string or perhaps a ball in a cup.

Quote:
Shuttles are too large in comparison with regular ships. This is mostly so they are visible at all. If they were proper size, they would be specs on screen. They are, however, largely in scale to each other.
Again, so what? The hud can let you know if a shuttle is buzzing around you.. if you really need to know, and last I checked nobody in EVE has ever minded that the smallest ships are mere specs to the gigantic capital ships, and that's a game where small ships can be a huge danger to you.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,069
# 40
03-14-2013, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by romuzarii View Post
Would this be so bad? Would the player helming said spec sized ships not have the correct view point on their screen? Or is there an already existing limitation in the coding for camera scroll in/out view?

I really would not complain as long as my vantage point was not compromised, and to be selfish about it, I really couldn't care less that another person feels "small" in their escort or shuttle. They are supposed to be small. I really hope this decision was because there was an outcry early on about size, or a limitation in camera view points, and not a presumed future complaint by players.

I want to feel large in a cruiser, and I want to feel small in an escort. Without these factors it's very hard to feel immersed in the gameplay when all you ever do is notice how small/how big you are depending on the ship. Not that I expect the scales to ever change at this point, but it needs to be said. I don't want to be one of THOSE people that likes to state things like they know it's a fact, but uh, I guarantee that most people paying up for this game would have the same opinion as I in regards to the scaling issue because we're all ST nerds, so if there isn't any limits in the way, I say make the paying playerbase happy if it's not too much trouble. At the very least, if it's easy enough, give us a testing run of new scales on tribble for awhile and see how it goes there.

I wasn't on the project at the start, so I don't know specifics for how shuttle scale was determined.

I will say that what I have found to make the most drastic impact on how big your ship feels, is what zoom level you're at while you play. The vast majority of players that I watch playing (notably, some who complained about how small their ship felt), play with their cameras zoomed all the way out (or nearly so). Personally, I feel that ships feel much better, and space combat is much cooler/more intense, when you zoom your camera closer to your ship. My personal belief is that we let players zoom too far out already, and that it would have been better to have the zoom limits much closer to the ship, but move them upward, so when you are zoomed in on the ship, you can still see what you're doing. That's all just my opinion, and nothing is going to change in game based off of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dm19delta View Post
Take DS9 for example, shrink the ends of the docking arms down to where they actually look like a galaxy class ship could pull up and dock with one, but keep the length. Take the outer docking ring and make it thinner, but keep the same size, and as far as the docking bays on the outer ring go, just scale them down to their proper size. Basically, just put certain parts of the station on a diet, but maintain the same length and overall size.
Your solution would make the whole station not look like what it looked like on the show (scale ignored). I feel that would enrage most fans (myself included) far more than it being out of scale as a whole.


Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Psst, you looked at the parking lot outside the Shipyard Window? Just saying.
SPOILER: *Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is a lot of smoke & mirrors outside the shipyard window. We're doing some tricky stuff with forced perspective, and scaling ships down as they get farther from that window. Don't believe everything you see. The actual ESD model (which, as I mentioned, is modeled to canon dimensions), would have trouble fitting a couple of nova classes inside. People have asked for a while to be able to fly in there and hang out. You couldn't navigate it if you wanted to.

ETA: I just did a quick test. Yes, you could fit 8 Galaxy's in the Dome of the properly scaled ESD. However, they have to be flipped over, and crammed together is such a tight configuration, it would be logistically impossible.
*

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Well that was only true when they were filming with the studio models and having to guestimate sizes. But once they started using the CGI models, pretty much the issue with different scales stopped.
That's a nice idea, but I don't buy it. . . production needs dictate a lot of things that you or I wouldn't be naturally inclined to do. (Note First Contact, and the Defiant/Ent E scaling issues)

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Have you guys thought about contacting Doug Drexler to get a copy of the actual Star Trek CGI Models to use for measurements or to help increase modeling accuracy with the low poly models? I know they used 3D Max for those models, because I got my hands on a copy of the Enterprise-Refit Model they used in the remastery of TMP.
I don't think anyone has done this, but I'm not on the ship team. However, what exactly would this get us? So we find out the scale of the model used? We have canon dimensions already. The models wouldn't be usable in game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Not true, because re-scaling models takes significant amounts of time. If you had to mess with size, you do that in the planning and prototype modeling stages when creating the models.

The simple thing to do is either change a model's position or change camera positions.
You're kidding right? Max has a "scale" controller. It takes two seconds to change the defiant from 170m to 120m long. . .
-The Artist formerly known as Tumerboy



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?

Last edited by tacofangs; 03-14-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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