Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 21
03-14-2013, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
------------------------------

If they were published before his death he read them and approved them he had complete control of his creation ( Star trek )
Actually, GR sold the entire Star Trek IP rights to Paramount after the original series ended its network run in 1969; so after that point, he didn't have complete control over his creation - and for a time was actually quite bitter that Paramount had managed to tirn it into a money generating success as time went on. When GR started 'Lincoln Enterprises' and selling Star Trek memorabilia; he was initially sued by Paramount as he had sold them th IP, but a deal was reached before the case went to court.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 22
03-14-2013, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Actually, GR sold the entire Star Trek IP rights to Paramount after the original series ended its network run in 1969; so after that point, he didn't have complete control over his creation - and for a time was actually quite bitter that Paramount had managed to tirn it into a money generating success as time went on. When GR started 'Lincoln Enterprises' and selling Star Trek memorabilia; he was initially sued by Paramount as he had sold them th IP, but a deal was reached before the case went to court.
He went around labeling things as canon or not but had no real say except for what happened on his shows, unless he managed to persuade Berman to forbid something. And then writers would constantly try to slip stuff past Berman like animated references. (Or, in general, TOS references. As I recall, towards the end, Berman snapped and said that TOS was garbage that never should have been made and that none of it counted in his opinion. But then he was talked back from that a little on Enterprise.)

Among things GR labeled non-canon:

Star Trek II - VI, TAS, TOS Season 3.

I also understand that he hated having to use the WoK uniforms in flashbacks but that was all they had the budget for. And he had the sweaters/belts removed because he wanted people in Starfleet to look like they were in color coded leisure wear, not military uniforms that decorated people for battle. But it supposedly irked him that he had to acknowledge the Meyer films at all.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 822
# 23
03-14-2013, 11:07 AM
so the answer to the question, as has been stated several times in these forums.. is that anything on screen is canon. ie, the shows and movies..

anything published off screen such as (literature and video games is soft canon (though i think the titan series has been made a special case by cbs)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 822
# 24
03-14-2013, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizwei View Post
You do realise that Gene disapproved of Nick Meyer's militaristic potrayal of Starfleet in Star Trek II?
Is that now non-canon as well?

It's a bit futile to base canon policy on Gene Roddenberry's arrogant boasts given that he was kicked upstairs and stripped of any real power over Star Trek after the utter disasters that were Star Trek: The Motion Picture and later TNG season 1.
this right here, while a good guess, is far far from what the truth is...

again, gene is a great man, but he did not create the "canon" rule.. it came when the next generation was aired, as cbs wanted continuity with what gene had created, and thus, wanted the star trek product not to go in a thousand different directions... not saying he wasnt trying to send a message, but at the end of the day, it was his living.. and in the interview that woopie goldberg has with shatner, frakes, nemoy, and stewart, they all agreed on this.. he had a vision, but it wasnt the driving force behind it.. he was a writer trying to get his vision on tv and trying to make his money...

watch interviews with the cast, gene didnt really care about his product being "pure" he was more worried about the money.. tos is a prime example of this.. they break rules that earlier episodes created.. every episode was a mix matched mess.. it wasnt until later in tos, and into the tmp movies, that it established rules, and stayed true to what had already been published..

so again, it has always been considered that onscreen is canon, everything else is soft canon..
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 25
03-14-2013, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by puttenham View Post
so again, it has always been considered that onscreen is canon, everything else is soft canon..
This is true of ST, SW and pretty much anything else where Canon matters.

In SW they had a slightly different way of looking at it. They had 3 or 4 levels of canon.

Movies were hard or G canon
TV shows were a step below that, for the most part this only included The Clone Wars. No one counts the Christmas Special as being valid in any way, shape or form.
Books were a step below TV shows
Games were at the bottom.

The idea that anything before GR died as hard, and anything after as soft is nonsense at best.

Gene had nothing to do with Season 3 of ToS, and most of the rest of the shows. So if that were to be true, ToS season 1&2, TNG season 1&2 and TMP would be the only thing to count as hard canon. Considering that accounts for maybe 10% or less of the total amount of TV/Movies, ect... You quite simply can not apply a term like Canon to that small of an amount.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,990
# 26
03-14-2013, 11:32 AM
They say canon is the fire in which we burn.


and I say, give me a match.


Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,125
# 27
03-14-2013, 12:09 PM
I have always thought that the Star Trek IP was very strict in what it considers "canon," way stricter than Star Wars. I'm not too familiar with ST canon outside the movies and TV series, but from reading around the internetz, that's the impression I get.

Movies and TV shows, period.

There is a concern I have with including additional stuff outside the movies and shows as canon. Some of the stuff outside these media is done wonderfully, and I feel they add to the theme and feel of the IP and setting. Then again, there's stuff out there that can be downright stupid.

Again, Star Wars is a perfect example. There's alot of great stuff in there in the expanded universe. Then there's some truly, truly awful stuff that's embarassing to be added, and downright against the grain of the movies.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,369
# 28
03-14-2013, 01:03 PM
If you can watch it is canon, the only comic / book I would consider anything but ancillary canon are the Countdown and Nero Comics, and the Countdown to Darkness ones.

Cryptic! Need some FREE KDF uniform options that you wont have to make? See Here.

JJ. Trek is just as canon and awesome as all other Trek, Get over it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 141
# 29
03-14-2013, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Helna is, per the EULA, co-owned by Cryptic and CBS. So if mentions of Helna start cropping up outside STO, that's when I'd personally draw the soft-canon line.

It's when something starts to emerge as consistent across licensees or CBS appears to be committed to a detail being consistent across licensees.

I guess, for me, soft canon is only the places where the comics, games, models, toys, etc. confirm one another and don't contradict.
Consistency with the films and television shows seems to define soft canon for many folks (though not all...obviously) but I wonder if even absurd stuff can be twisted into soft canon if an "alternate universe" label is slapped onto it? ...you know like an X-Men Universe - lol
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 141
# 30
03-14-2013, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoakiraii View Post
They say canon is the fire in which we burn.


and I say, give me a match.
hahaha ... bustin my gut here
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:38 AM.