Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 140
# 61
03-16-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
Honest answer? I've never really seen them so I'm a little unqualified to answer
http://startrekofgodsandmen.com/main/
(Fanboy Heaven)

http://www.startrekphase2.de/en/new_voyages.html
(In particular: To Serve All My Days and World Enough and Time.)

http://startrekrenegades.com/home/
(In production)
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,236
# 62
03-16-2013, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanburch View Post
What do you think of other glorified fan fiction like Star Trek: Of God's and Men, Star Trek: New Voyages, or Star Trek: Renegades all of which feature Trek actors from the five (5) television series including Denise Crosby.

Does anyone qualify these as "soft canon"?
No offense to the cast of these shows, but its not even soft canon. It's a fanfiction.

Though if it had enough of a following on the Internet, it's plausible CBS could canonify it in some degree.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 53
# 63
03-16-2013, 03:18 PM
As far as I am concerned the shows and movie are official cannon. Or canon ... can never remember which spelling... I would like to count the enterprise novels after kobayashi maru and one or two before as canon... since they totally rock for a season 5 and 6.

Sto is quasi-canon... since it takes both official and non official events and goes from there.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 301
# 64
03-16-2013, 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanburch View Post
Since the value of the IP is, in fact, determined by fans; I submit that "canon" and "soft canon" are ultimately determined by the collective opinion of subjective individuals in the audience.
The opinions of the fans have never nor will ever change the definition of the word canon. Perhaps you should use a different word. The creator, or current rights-holders are those that determine what is and is not canon with regards to the IP that they own, as has been stated already.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 140
# 65
03-16-2013, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donutsmasher View Post
The opinions of the fans have never nor will ever change the definition of the word canon. Perhaps you should use a different word. The creator, or current rights-holders are those that determine what is and is not canon with regards to the IP that they own, as has been stated already.
Understood. I think I am more curious in what individuals recognize as "fitting with canon" in an attempt to establish more firmly those "soft canon" and "fanon" stories that may be generally accepted as plausible in a type of "expanded" canon.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,681
# 66
03-16-2013, 04:55 PM
Technically canon is whatever the license holder decides it is, but once you throw stories taking place in alternate realities into the mix, what is canon gets scrambled. The issue then becomes what is canon for a particular reality.
To be honest I hate this alternate reality crap, it's like story telling written by tax lawyers.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 67
03-16-2013, 05:34 PM
Anything that wasn't on TV or in a movie isn't canon. But I'm not that concerned about that sort of thing. It tends to limit people using their imaginations (AKA the only thing that has saved Star Wars from itself since pretty much day 1).

I have enjoyed a few of the Star Trek paperbacks over the years, though. There are certain types of stories that don't work on TV which have worked better there.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 281
# 68
03-16-2013, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
I have enjoyed a few of the Star Trek paperbacks over the years, though. There are certain types of stories that don't work on TV which have worked better there.
Interestingly enough I can name an example in Trek were this happened.

The TOS book The Wounded Sky is better than the TNG episode (Where No One Has Gone Before) it was adapted into.
Starfleet Veteran
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Posts: 5,236
# 69
03-16-2013, 06:00 PM
Best just think of the TV Shows, the Movies, and Tech Manuals as definitive canon.

Novels as semi-canon. Which is canon until overwriten by definitive canon. (Example: The Star Wars novels and games were regarded as canon since Lucas approved and even supervised them, but with the new movies, anything from the Battle of Bakura on is no longer canon).

Star Trek Games (Computer, Card, etc) are not canon. I for one think of STO in this category because if there is another movie in the Prime Timeline, everything in STO can easily be swept aside.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 301
# 70
03-16-2013, 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
Anything that wasn't on TV or in a movie isn't canon. But I'm not that concerned about that sort of thing. It tends to limit people using their imaginations (AKA the only thing that has saved Star Wars from itself since pretty much day 1).
Its a pretty well known fact that Gene himself was something of a revisionist when it came to his creation. He disliked the animated series, so that became "non-canon", he also didn't much like most of the TOS movies and was happy to declare them non-canon if it suited his needs. And when TNG started he had a bad habit of declaring anything from TOS that contradicted TNG to be, you guessed it, non-canon.

It does make me chuckle when people cry that JJ's Trek is "non-canon" because it takes place in an alternate reality (anyone remember TOS's mirror universe?) or that certain books or even STO could "never be canon" because they were never approved of by Gene or don't fit that persons own personal idea of what Trek is. This is especially amusing when you consider that DS9, which is considered canon, was utterly loathed by Gene to the point where he refused to discuss it, and Trek was HIS baby.

I'd say the current holders of the Trek Universe are doing a pretty good job of maintaining its relevance, its ease of access and its place in our hearts. People just need to lighten up a little and remember that whether its canon or not, it doesn't matter all that much as long as people enjoy it.

And really, the most important part is this:

Trek Lives.
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