Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 11
03-15-2013, 01:59 PM
Well to be honest before the JHAS got its buff to fleet level I could keep up with it in my defiant retrofit, 1v1 in kerrat against one that was reaping havoc to all. I couldn't win but neither was I losing terribly, though I think the JHAS would only just have won after 10 minutes of zipping around each other, stacking buffs and generally trying our best.

Now however I doubt that will be possible even in a fleet defiant as they got a 10% hull and shield increase since then and the 5th tactical slot. Yes fleet defiant has the 5th slot too and 10% more hull but it didn't get more shields. Another thing to bear in mind is that the Jem hadar set has been beefed up for a costly price. The only people that used them were JHAS owners but still they've had that boosted now so they're considerably more deadly.

Ships can come close and you'll still beat a bad player in a bug but even if you're a good player you'll find it almost impossible to beat a bug 1 on 1 unless you have halor klum and have SNB.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 291
# 12
03-18-2013, 10:37 AM
I descovered a way to beat this ship but its definitely circumstantial and not something your going to have any chance of doing in a pug squad. however if you can get your fleet together and want to go bugship hunting (you know, cause pay to win players raging is funny when you kill them 15-0)

so here it is: you will require 1 fleet defiant, 1 science character (can be the defiant or cruiser) and a light cruiser, or a cruiser that can maneuver better then the fat things that usually follow me everywhere.

start by having the defiant rush the bugship and get into a dogfight. if the defiant has at least 2 RCS thrusters they can keep up, especially if you moderate your use of evasive maneuvers and engine batteries. have the cruiser use as much speed stuff as it can and fly over the bugship with warp plasma. if possible, put the warp plasma directly infront and around it so it's stuck in there for as long as possible. when the bugship hits hazard emitters, sub nuc it to remove all it's buffs. it is now stuck in warp plasma. Tricobalt mines and viral matrix will now finish the job.

note: while tricobalts were recently nerfed, they still do massive damage in mine form. i can no longer drop a tactical cube in elite by 30% with mines, however they still rip holes in tiny bugships, at least while they're stuck in warp plasma. you'll have about 30 seconds to lay down as much damage as possible. if your lucky they used either tactical team or reverse shield polarity before getting hit by sub nuc and therefore you only have to deal with one of those skills at most. which means their shields are quickly not an issue

recommended build for the defiant would be:
3DHC 1dual beam bank

rapidfire 2(or greater) beam overload 2(or greater)

to properly take out the bugship.

remember, dont spam skills, wait for the perfect moment.
Timelords Fleet
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 13
03-18-2013, 10:49 AM
this is sad, all this rage over a stupid ship.

I have it and hate flying it, its just a big target symbol lol. And ive had mine for over a year.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 316
# 14
03-18-2013, 11:09 AM
Aside from ships from within the Federation like the Caitian Carrier and Andorian ships, I think it is very non-trek that such ships from enemy factions were even added and makes little to no sense. Why would a Federation Captain be flying around in a Jemmy Ship, Breen or any other faction that is not a part of the Federation.

I agree it is a tough ship..... it's smaller than my Escort Carrier yet has a higher hull rating and that makes no sense. The hull rating on that ship in my opinion should be less than even a Vesta, maybe around 22-25k.

It all seems rather "Cryptic", pardon the pun.....


"We're doing it wrong, but it's working...."
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 15
03-18-2013, 11:18 AM
the JHAS is not all that and a bag of chips and certainly is not god-like. i have poped plenty of them in my Mobius they are nimble fast, and hit hard but that's about it they fall apart at the seams without support and a sci ship in a 1 on 1 will take it apart piece by piece since all they need to do is keep it sitting still or shoot out its engines. i saw a bug fall prey to a vesta and i swooped in and before the other team could patch him up he was a molten slag of swiss cheese. i think the reason ppl have such a hard time with them is because they are so bloody tiny and nimble its hard to lock on to them to fire but not impossible
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,268
# 16
03-18-2013, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nierion View Post
I think it is very non-trek that such ships from enemy factions were even added and makes little to no sense. Why would a Federation Captain be flying around in a Jemmy Ship, Breen or any other faction that is not a part of the Federation.
Come on folks. Use common sense! It's only immersion breaking and bad for the game if people get a T5 Connie or a T5 NX. Having everyone fly Breen-Jem'Hadar-Cardassian-Ferengie-29th Century-Tholian Ships at end-game, that's CANON!

Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,268
# 17
03-18-2013, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpirko View Post
and now i have a question...
I take the same stance on PVP balance that the development team does ... I forget it exists and really just hope the PVE balance changes carry through to the PVP side of the game.

It's worked for them for the past three years, amirite?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 134
# 18
03-18-2013, 11:54 AM
I've soloed JHAS before, and I run a torp build - perhaps the wrongest thing you can possibly take into PVP. Yeah, they're tougher, but I'd hate to fly a ship known as "the most powerful in game" - far more rewarding to own a ship like that in an inferior vessel, so that it's obviously a matter of pure skill.

edit: Here's some tips for beating the most common JHAS setup, that being DHCs and turrets. If the JHAS' nose is pointed at you, you have a few seconds to live. Use this time to get behind him. If it's charging at you, charge right back at it while firing (this forces most pilots to pump fore shields), and then cross over it. After you cross it, immobilize it with the tool of your choice, and open up into its hopefully weakened butt shield with everything you have. A strong aft weapon battery is very helpful in this regard. There's also a certain console available on the exchange which really helps with the 'immobilizing' portion of the fight, but I'll let y'all figure out what that is yourselves - gotta keep some trade secrets

Remember, the JHAS you'll most likely encounter in PVP is lethal from the front, but mediocre in all other fire arcs. Don't let it turn, or if you're agile enough, stay on its ass even as it does turn, and you'll be able to hold it down and beat it to death.

Oh, and naturally, you need high DPS yourself. The JHAS has lots of engi slots, which means lots of damage resist. It can also repair itself like an em-effer. My setup is capable of tremendous spike damage - all I really need to do is drop my target's shields, because once I start hitting hull, it's over in a torpedo or two.

Last edited by istvaanshogaatsu; 03-18-2013 at 12:01 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 291
# 19
03-19-2013, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neos472 View Post
the JHAS is not all that and a bag of chips and certainly is not god-like. i have poped plenty of them in my Mobius they are nimble fast, and hit hard but that's about it they fall apart at the seams without support and a sci ship in a 1 on 1 will take it apart piece by piece since all they need to do is keep it sitting still or shoot out its engines. i saw a bug fall prey to a vesta and i swooped in and before the other team could patch him up he was a molten slag of swiss cheese. i think the reason ppl have such a hard time with them is because they are so bloody tiny and nimble its hard to lock on to them to fire but not impossible
this post is sort of funny

when i talk about fighting a JHAS, i'm talking about using NORMAL ships to fight it. aka, not cash shop at all. i fly either my advanced escort, fleet defiant, or klingon raider depending on character. fleet defiant is the only thing that comes close, and even then falls short some of the time mostly dependent on how good the JHAS is.

i know full well a wells class, JHAS, or ferengi ship can take it out 1vs1 without having to worry "am i dealing with someone that took PVP bootcamp or someone that has no clue what they're doing?" at least if they themselves know what they're doing.

no i'm simply asking that cryptic keep some level of balance in the game. fleet ships are supposed to be a "boost" above normal ships, not a whole tier above. and this is done almost perfectly, my normal advanced escort has taken out fleet ships plenty of times across multiple skill levels.
lock box ships feel like they're a tier higher, and most of them its not that noticeable unless your fighting someone with really high skill. the JHAS on the other hand, doesnt take that much skill to take out "normal" ships. which seems a little bit unfair. people work just as hard to get fleet ships, why should lock box ships be buffed to be better?
Timelords Fleet
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 986
# 20
03-19-2013, 08:28 AM
The problem with the JHAS is that, compared to its closest analog (Fleet Defiant), it is numerically better in several ways and not weaker in any. Compared to the Fleet Defiant it has:

More shields (modifier 1.0 vs. 0.9)
More hull (34,500 vs. 33,000)
More turn (20 vs. 17)
Better Boff setup (two universal Lt. slots and no Ens. Tac is unarguably better than the Defiant)

So, it turns better, is tougher just on shields and hull, and its Boff setup allows it to tank even more. I wouldn't mind if there was something, somewhere that it paid the price for all this to keep it in balance, but it doesn't. Yes, it comes down largely to build and skill. Yes, you can set it up wrong, and play badly, and lose in it. But in PvP, where a tiny edge can make all the difference, this is more than enough edge to make it the undisputed best escort, and perhaps best ship in PvP. I don't even waste my time shooting at them unless their team is dead and they're isolated, or I can see they're running a poor build. It's not worth the time when you could be shooting at something else which is on an even playing field.

I'd say knock its hull, shields and turn down to equal with the Fleet Defiant. It can keep the universal Boff slots, that's more than enough to still make it a desirable ship.
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