Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 21
03-19-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpirko View Post
this post is sort of funny

when i talk about fighting a JHAS, i'm talking about using NORMAL ships to fight it. aka, not cash shop at all. i fly either my advanced escort, fleet defiant, or klingon raider depending on character. fleet defiant is the only thing that comes close, and even then falls short some of the time mostly dependent on how good the JHAS is.

?
The fleet defiant (and any version of the defiant above tier 4) is a cash shop ship....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 22
03-19-2013, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwave85 View Post
The problem with the JHAS is that, compared to its closest analog (Fleet Defiant), it is numerically better in several ways and not weaker in any.
And the fleet defiant itself is a very, very good escort. Which is NOT available to everybody either.

Even as a new JHAS owner, I still think it needs to have it's turn rate heavily nerfed to bring it in line.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 23
03-19-2013, 09:55 AM
All this chatter on the JHAS bugship makes me want one.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,911
# 24
03-19-2013, 10:06 AM
If you don't feel like your Sisko ship isn't better then the jem ship...

Stop crying and Buy a Patrol escort. lol

Or a Fleet escort Refit.

They both run the same boff setup that any non moronic Bug pilot is going to slot...

They match it in almost every way minus a bit of turn.

2 Copies of omega... a Aux to Damp and you will out turn 90% of the bug flyers anyway.

The other fed escorts are just as good... people seem to simply lack the basic creativity to set them up proper.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 25
03-19-2013, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post

Stop crying and Buy a Patrol escort. lol

Or a Fleet escort Refit.

They both run the same boff setup that any non moronic Bug pilot is going to slot...

They match it in almost every way minus a bit of turn.
Again, less turn, less shields, less hull. You've essentially traded having the Defiant's 5 tactical consoles for having something approximating the JHAS Boff setup. So comparing to these ships, the JHAS is still quantifiably better. I'm not ready to say it breaks the game fundamentally, but when one ship is provably better than others in its class, it becomes the only ship worth flying if you have access to it. And that's no fun. The only thing preventing PvP from turning into a sea of bug ships is its limited availability. Fundamentally it's still a single ship that:

- Hits like a Defiant
- Tanks like a Patrol Escort
- Handles almost like a Bird of Prey

Why fly anything else, ever?

Last edited by shockwave85; 03-19-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,939
# 26
03-19-2013, 11:28 AM
the beta section of a fleet MVAM is basically on par with a bug, if you ignore the shield and hull penalty it has. mine turns over 50, which i think is bug territory. the LTC sci can be the key to victory or a nerf to your damage.

i have beat bugs in my tech doffed kdf cruisers, they can tank well enough and hit hard enough to participate in an extended fight with one.the trick to beating one is not to fight it on its terms, noobing it up with 4 DHC. only the bug is going to have the on target up time to make that fire often enough to be effective. slower ships wont have the on target up time. you need to evade its firepower, and unleash a torp and/or beam alpha to bust its chops in a single strike. if your lucky, that will be enough.

its still bs how powerful it is, its an 11/10 escort with ballooned stats in every way. it should have had a kdf like .83 shield mod, with a sub defiant 28k hitpoints, then the 20 turn and 5 tac consoles would be fair
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 27
03-19-2013, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwave85 View Post
Again, less turn, less shields, less hull. You've essentially traded having the Defiant's 5 tactical consoles for having something approximating the JHAS Boff setup. So comparing to these ships, the JHAS is still quantifiably better. I'm not ready to say it breaks the game fundamentally, but when one ship is provably better than others in its class, it becomes the only ship worth flying if you have access to it. And that's no fun. The only thing preventing PvP from turning into a sea of bug ships is its limited availability. Fundamentally it's still a single ship that:

- Hits like a Defiant
- Tanks like a Patrol Escort
- Handles almost like a Bird of Prey

Why fly anything else, ever?
A bOp can take the best jem hadar escorts ^^

Agreed tho, with two very good players, equally in skills, similar setup/weapons etc a defiant will lose versus a jemmy 1v1. Patrol escort has more chance but still outmeanvured by the bug.

Difference isnt THAT big though imo, you can still put out a very good fight not having a bug. Last time for the lulz i 1v1'ed in a Defiant vs a patrol, obviously the patrol wins because he can reliably rotate 2 epts's and you got a useless tac ensign on the defiant.

But the player in question was very good, and still it was a stalemate.


that the bug oculdnt be tanked by a good player in a cruiser or something is nonsense, even a team healer without the redicluous EptS3 and 2x RSP bull**** you can pretty much outtank the best damaging JHAS fighters.

A sci is even better he can simply nuke off the hard hitting dmg buffs. Engi sucks these days

Last edited by darkfader1988; 03-19-2013 at 11:43 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 28
03-19-2013, 12:04 PM
I found some success in flying my MVAE against a number of Jems. It has a unique playstyle though and doesn't really fly like anything else out there, so I could understand if it weren't everyone's cup of tea.

vids and guides and stuff

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 29
03-19-2013, 12:10 PM
MVAE was my first VA level ship ever, I flew it for a long time in all sorts of PvE content. The issue I always saw with it in PvP though, is that if you die, you're looking at a 10 minute CD before you can use Beta again. Putting myself in the other team's shoes, if I knew I could significantly reduce one guy's threat level for the next 10 minutes by killing him one time, I'm going to be heavily inclined to mark him as my team's target. Yeah, you have Alpha and Gamma, but they aren't nearly as good if the point is to outmaneuver bugs and deal high damage.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 30
03-19-2013, 12:35 PM
I have to be honest, I hate the bug ship. For that matter I hate all the alien ships that are used atm. It takes away a bit of the feeling of being in a certain faction. Why would the feds dust off 50 year old, salvaged ships and give them out to captains. Anyway that is rpg side of me speaking.

It wouldn't bother me if the feds or kdf had an equivalent and they don't really. KDF ships suffer massively in hull and shields to get that kind of turn rate and they have no escort that is packing 5 tac consoles. Therein lies the problem I think, the turn rate. If the Fleet Defiant had a universal ensign instead of tac I'd be more inclined to use one. At the moment I use the Steamrunner and the Fleet Somraw for my tacs. The bug ship is like a patrol escort on steroids and I've only really had success with the above ships against them in a 1v1 situation and more often than not I lose that battle.

If the mechanics of beams were fixed it may go some way into negating the ability for escorts to simply sit on cruisers tails and hammer them, putting out some pressure dmg on them so they have to break off an attack. I grow bored of having to play engi cruisers as a dedicated healer.
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