Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 203
# 11
03-15-2013, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by istvaanshogaatsu View Post
I don't think you're a researcher of any kind, to be honest.

Researchers tend to have better than a high-school level of spelling... and proudly so.

Frankly, you sound like a teenager trying to sound extra smart. Oh, and "cold and calculating" too.
I did get that vibe, but I always give benefit of the doubt but the name "xtern1ty" doesn't quite give a good "vibe"

But I'm sure xtern1ty is still a nice person. I won't give 100% access to my fleet (nothing personal. I'm just cautious)
***
Growing old is inevitable. Growing up is optional.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 12
03-15-2013, 12:44 PM
Ah I remember seeing you in Zone chat. I believe you were silenced because you were posting a fleet recruitment message quite often and enough people clicked on the "report spam" button. When a certain number do that within a time frame you get auto silenced and there's very little a moderator does to it and it mostly doesn't involve a mod.

Also as I remember correctly you were doing a lot more than just posting a fleet message you were at best having a debate with someone and at worst we can call it all petty squabbling. To come onto the forums and post this it must have really rattled you, however posting something like this will only serve to make the people who were picking on you laugh.

Also declaring you're a researcher who enjoys studying people on MMO's isn't going to win you many friends as people do not like being studied. While I'm sure it's not unethical I'm also sure that you didn't obtain consent from anyone including perfect world so I would suggest editing that out of your post.

As for starting a fleet and trying to complete a star base, I wouldn't recommend it as it requires currently over 30 million dilithium and something like 1.5-2 million fleet marks which is the biggest factor in completion. There are/were a number of fleets where you did not have to serve them to get the "nu shynees" just play with them and help level up the star base, which isn't exactly unreasonable.

Course if you want to start one that's your choice but be prepared for a very long haul mostly up a 89 degree incline. All the while new things will get added to grind for, while you have little resources yourself. The devs will also be making the same old content harder, as most of the player base get new toys, so you might want to find a way to get some access to them also.

Tips to not having it feel like work is only work on the 1200xp projects for the embassy. Try to only do the 1000xp projects for the star base and be prepared to not progress very fast past T3 without 40 regular players. The 40 players number is the number of dilithium needed for 3 projects divided by the 8000 limit if you're curious.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 13
03-15-2013, 01:18 PM
i dont see where you are going with this(original post)

Are you complaining about the in game silencing system, or about how hard it is creating a fleet.

If its about the silencing system, cant do anything about it, let me add this,

I see players report him by the dozens for spam-Original Post

I know this is a exaggeration, but it still shows that you must have done something to get a lot of people to report you.

Plus this is a MMO...people will do stuff like silence you.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 715
# 14
03-15-2013, 01:47 PM
Don't know if the reason for you being silenced is advertising in zone chat for your fleet...peeps don't like that and be warned you would get silenced sooner or later if you do that.

Nice that you are trying to set up a fleet...However, best advice is to do this on Starbase One thread instead of taking up space in other threads...you might get moved or placed there eventually...then again still free advertising for your fleet or your intents
[
Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 455
# 15
03-15-2013, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
Your problem is two-fold:

Trust is earned - of course some trust must be given or no relationships would function at all - but the kind of trust you are asking for upfront from existing fleets(people) is unrealistic.
Perhaps. However, people have been known to trust others with no prior relation. There is more to trust than meets the eye. There's natural impulse: Some men tend to say things more readily to a woman than they do to another man, and vice-versa depending on their personal experiences. And there's subconcious descrimination: A person who is approached to collaborate on a project in person may not agree if the person approaching is of a different standing, evident in their manner or form of appearance. Post #10 gives an example of that. As you can see in closer observation, trust now becomes an aggregate of one's prejudices and experiences. Let's use a little RP to illustrate it.

Say Barack Obama was retired from office as President. He wants to relax after the strains of office, has free time to spare, and decides to play Star Trek because he's fascinated with astronomy. Unfortunately, none of his close associates care about video games, so he goes off on his own and decides to use his leadership experience to build a fleet and bring people together. Word soon gets out that Barack Obama is looking to build a fleet or co-lead one.

Do you think they'll shun him and tell him he's wasting his time? You think instead he'll get bombarded with spam from fleet leaders begging him to co-lead their fleet, please please please? Or will the conservative ones do the former and the liberal ones do the latter?

Most importantly, will the way others act towards Barack Obama be any different than the way they act towards me where he trying to do what I am? If your answer is yes, then trust is not earned, but just another tool we use to survive with. A sum of personal instincts, experiences and learned prejudices we use for our selfish interests, and rarely ever for equality.




PS. I doubt anyone will understand the depth of my meaning as pertinent to fleet leadership, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I'll just post a follow-up later.
Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 455
# 16
03-15-2013, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sasheria View Post
I have to agree. I am sure you are a nice person xtern1ty, but you should be aware that in an online world, there are no recourse if the trust is broken.

In real life, there are laws and repercussion when someone cheat them, but in an online environment, there are no recourse. A person could up and one day take everything and boot their partners (that happen to me) and everything I have invested into the fleet is lost. Sure we can report that person, but no compensation will be given.

Exception to the rule would be if you have group with players over long period of time (or real life friends) then it is possible to share everything on the same level. I have a group of friends who play other games with me (they won't play STO) and we form guild where everyone is on the same level (max rank) we grew up with each other over the last 20+ years so we trust each other implicitly.

I have been burn many times handing out trust.

I stared my own fleet (one person fleet) and have invested a ton of resources to get to level 1 star base. I would be very sad to have that taken from me.

Thank you, however my name is Xean. You forget I've been a leading guild leader in some of the top western MMO's (RS back to AOE), where I have faced all the issues one can think of, but it does'nt matter. Xtern1ty happens to be the name of the int'l community me and a few other people founded to advance fellowship through understanding and means "beyond eternity".

I'm sorry for your experiences, and I understand. When an observer enters a war zone, he sees the remains of what indifferent beings have left behind. It is never a pretty sight, nor is it pretty when people screw up the world and others have to pick up the pieces. If I seem a hard man, it's because I've observed the depths of ugliness to which people stoop, both within and without. Maybe it's why I'm not afraid to confront that ugliness and fight it, even when it is not in the real world.

Again, sorry for your experience, too bad we did not meet sooner.

Last edited by xtern1ty; 03-16-2013 at 07:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 17
03-15-2013, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtern1ty View Post
Perhaps. However, people have been known to trust others with no prior relation. There is more to trust than meets the eye. There's natural impulse: Some men tend to say things more readily to a woman than they do to another man, and vice-versa depending on their personal experiences. And there's subconcious descrimination: A person who is approached to collaborate on a project in person may not agree if the person approaching is of a different standing, evident in their manner or form of appearance. Post #10 gives an example of that. As you can see in closer observation, trust now becomes an aggregate of one's prejudices and experiences. Let's use a little RP to illustrate it.

Say Barack Obama was retired from office as President. He wants to relax after the strains of office, has free time to spare, and decides to play Star Trek because he's fascinated with astronomy. Unfortunately, none of his close associates care about video games, so he goes off on his own and decides to use his leadership experience to build a fleet and bring people together. Word soon gets out that Barack Obama is looking to build a fleet or co-lead one.

Do you think they'll shun him and tell him he's wasting his time? You think instead he'll get bombarded with spam from fleet leaders begging him to co-lead their fleet, please please please? Or will the conservative ones do the former and the liberal ones do the latter?

Most importantly, will the way others act towards Barack Obama be any different than the way they act towards me where he trying to do what I am? If your answer is yes, then trust is not earned, but just another tool we use to survive with. A sum of personal instincts, experiences and learned prejudices we use for our selfish interests, and rarely ever for equality.




PS. I doubt anyone will understand the depth of my meaning as pertinent to fleet leadership, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I'll just post a follow-up later.
Probably using an ex-president/politician as someone of "trust" is a bad example, however, as I indicated in my post someone would have extensive background info on who he is - so that begs the question: Who are you, and what verifiable background would you give - to earn that trust?

It all leads back to the idea of accountablity - trust in an MMO is hard because it is hard to hold someone accountable for their actions. How could you be held accountable for your actions? That is the question that must be answered if you seek that kind of trust.

P.S. Being a Clinical Psychologist who specializes in Marriage therapy - trust and accountability is something that I deal with all the time. However, I should deal with my own grammer and spelling deficiencies. Pure laziness on my part.

Last edited by born2bwild1; 03-15-2013 at 02:21 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 203
# 18
03-15-2013, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
Probably using an ex-president/politician as someone of "trust" is a bad example, however, as I indicated in my post someone would have extensive background info on who he is - so that begs the question: Who are you, and what verifiable background would you give - to earn that trust?

It all leads back to the idea of accountablity - trust in an MMO is hard because it is hard to hold someone accountable for their actions. How could you be held accountable for your actions? That is the question that must be answered if you seek that kind of trust.

P.S. Being a Clinical Psychologist who specializes in Marriage therapy - trust and accountability is something that I deal with all the time. However, I should deal with my own grammer and spelling deficiencies. Pure laziness on my part.

There is a big difference between meeting in person vs online. The president example would be bad. There is a VERY good chance he will be met with a lot of negativity. Why? because we will never know who was that person.

As I have said on a different post, It is easier to give "trust" in person than "online"

In person, I can take recourse if that trust was squander. Lets say you and I go into business together as partners (which is like forming a fleet) Both of us have full access to the business. One day you decide to take everything and leave. My recourse? I can call the cops and may get my stuff back. I have insurance and could claim theft. There is a little insurance that allow me to extend that trust and I won't be "left with nothing" in real life.

What can I do online? I could put a nasty post about you but then I might be ban for breaking EULA/Forum rules. I could post someplace else, but I couldn't call the cops on you. I can't get my investment back and there are no insurance to recover what I'm lost. If there is no real money involved, I may extend that trust a little, but since this is F2P, and a large portion are invested using real money (cause I chose to do this alone so that is my own choice) it is hard to trust someone NOT booting me out of the fleet (if we are both same level leader)

Now... what I "may" do is promote you to level 6 with all the function except, rename, promote beyond your level, kicking, and adjust fleet bank, but then your "experiment" is not "pure" since you don't have 100% ability. The only way I am willing to do that would be if you were my real life friend whom I have known or at least know you in person for a while (i.e. met you, know your real name and where you live)

The virtual world is a perfect place for hiding who you are. you could be a man, woman, boy, girl or space alien, but we will never truly know the other person beyond the game.

example: I was in a fleet where I extend my trust and the leader gave me "rank 6" position. I spend 50$ buying dil to accelerate our starbase 4 upgrade and some other did that too cause we want to get access to fleet ship level 5. you know what happen when the upgrade is progress? most of us were kicked from the fleet without warning. All the rights were stripped and all officers were kicked from the fleet.

What kind of guarantee that you can give to any fleet that you won't do the same? A man's word might be his bond, but some con-man could do the same online and people can't tell the difference due to anonymity.
***
Growing old is inevitable. Growing up is optional.
Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 455
# 19
03-15-2013, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
Probably using an ex-president/politician as someone of "trust" is a bad example, however, as I indicated in my post someone would have extensive background info on who he is - so that begs the question: Who are you, and what verifiable background would you give - to earn that trust?
You're getting closer to core of the idea, but still missing the point. I saw a man once who volunteered to hold up a sign for a guy running for mayor in the rain for 4 hours. Reaching home after, he wouldn't help his neighbor pull a full dolly up the second floor stairs. If people have to be superstars to be treated as equals, then I say they've been screwed big time.

I could be a poor man sleeping on a bench in Washington D.C. with only a tattered cloak to call his own, or I could be a rich man living in Lake Tahoe with a garage full of cars and enough money to buy Star Trek Online from its developers. I could be white, black, red, or yellow. It should not make one iota of difference whether someone says hello to me when they walk by or not. Nor should it make any difference in finding people to start a fleet with here, at least for those who treat others based on individual character as I do. But I'm only me. I can't speak for the rest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
It all leads back to the idea of accountablity - trust in an MMO is hard because it is hard to hold someone accountable for their actions. How could you be held accountable for your actions? That is the question that must be answered if you seek that kind of trust.

P.S. Being a Clinical Psychologist who specializes in Marriage therapy - trust and accountability is something that I deal with all the time. However, I should deal with my own grammer and spelling deficiencies. Pure laziness on my part.
Accountability works both ways. When a player becomes a partner leader, they have equal power to do the other ill as the other. It is only sensible then that neither do anything which would spoil the future of their relationship. I've been partner-leader many times successfully and that's my view. But disagreements can happen. Most can be resolved if both are sensible. If not and I was the leader who joined, I would simply approach the other leader and say "sorry, but I don't believe our viewpoints harmonize". I would wish the other leader well, resign my post and go on my way. But as I've said, that's only me. Can't speak for anyone else. Sounds to me like the common sense thing to do, too bad I'm in the minority.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 20
03-15-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtern1ty View Post
You're getting closer to core of the idea, but still missing the point. I saw a man once who volunteered to hold up a sign for a guy running for mayor in the rain for 4 hours. Reaching home after, he wouldn't help his neighbor pull a full dolly up the second floor stairs. If people have to be superstars to be treated as equals, then I say they've been screwed big time.

I could be a poor man sleeping on a bench in Washington D.C. with only a tattered cloak to call his own, or I could be a rich man living in Lake Tahoe with a garage full of cars and enough money to buy Star Trek Online from its developers. I could be white, black, red, or yellow. It should not make one iota of difference whether someone says hello to me when they walk by or not. Nor should it make any difference in finding people to start a fleet with here, at least for those who treat others based on individual character as I do. But I'm only me. I can't speak for the rest.




Accountability works both ways. When a player becomes a partner leader, they have equal power to do the other ill as the other. It is only sensible then that neither do anything which would spoil the future of their relationship. I've been partner-leader many times successfully and that's my view. But disagreements can happen. Most can be resolved if both are sensible. If not and I was the leader who joined, I would simply approach the other leader and say "sorry, but I don't believe our viewpoints harmonize". I would wish the other leader well, resign my post and go on my way. But as I've said, that's only me. Can't speak for anyone else. Sounds to me like the common sense thing to do, too bad I'm in the minority.
I am just addressing the merging of fleet issue that you suggested, not the founding of a new fleet. My comments only apply to that situation in regards to you "conditions" for joining a existing fleet:

Quote:
- I will be granted immediate leadership (founder) rank, sharing all powers with current leader(s).
- Current leaders will continue to remain active and lead with me, remaining leaders in the same rank as me for as long the game is around.
- Current leadership will accept my plan for a 5-leader fleet.
- All leaders will work cooperatively and communicate regularly with each other, a goal I will make sure of.
- We will rebrand the current fleet with a new image consisting of new name, logo and messages for a community-themed fleet.
- Members of any fleet that may merge with the main one will retain their current rank.
please re-read your list and tell me: the mirror - what you see.
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