Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 1 Excelsior not for Engineers?
03-17-2013, 02:15 AM
Alright, so browsing this forum, scouring through dozens of builds, it seems to be rather universally accepted that the Excelsior should never be used by Engineer captains. My question is then why is that the case?

Or rather, why is the Excelsior meant to be shyed away from, while the Regent is then recommended in its place? I mean, I have read the reasoning behind it, as the Eng doesn't have the DPS to make proper use of the Excel, but with virtually the identical BOFF layout on the Regent save for swapping the Ensign Tac and Eng around and exactly one difference in turn rate, I don't see anything that would make it less effective for an Eng. By that rationale, the Regent should also be given the same stipulation, yes?

I don't see how the Regent would then be any MORE effective than the Excelsior for an Engineer?

Sure, one less Ensign tac for Tac team, but that can be easily solved with Doffs.

If I am missing something here, please let me know. I am trying to build an effective Eng cruiser for PvP (no not DPS focused) and really neither of these lets me rotate EPtS3 without doffs (even then not consistently)

I guess my overall question is why is the Regent recommended for Engineers over the Excelsior? I don't see really any difference in their overall DPS or Defensive capabilities.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 879
# 2
03-17-2013, 02:38 AM
With the current state of the game, I can't recommend an engineer period. Sorry.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 99
# 3
03-17-2013, 03:03 AM
The Dragon Excelsior

Scroll down to the second post.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,619
# 4
03-17-2013, 03:08 AM
cruisers with LTC tacs, hell more then just a LT tac, are not going to make ideal heal boats, they are for kirking, period. but really, fed cruisers deal a net 0 damage now, with their pressure damage vs all the healing power creep. so not only are eng captains just plain bad, thier ships, unless your a super healer, are bad too.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,429
# 5
03-17-2013, 03:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
so not only are eng captains just plain bad
That's something that I just can't agree with...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 6
03-17-2013, 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
cruisers with LTC tacs, hell more then just a LT tac, are not going to make ideal heal boats, they are for kirking, period. but really, fed cruisers deal a net 0 damage now, with their pressure damage vs all the healing power creep. so not only are eng captains just plain bad, thier ships, unless your a super healer, are bad too.
With the exception of calling Eng captains plain bad, I agree with everything here.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,005
# 7
03-17-2013, 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenight00 View Post
The Dragon Excelsior

Scroll down to the second post.
completely outdated anyway. i mean that was even before technician doffs had this huge impact on dps cruisers and he advices on a EPS console...
i mean basically those builds are ok, but need revisiting and editing.
Go pro or go home
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 8
03-17-2013, 08:22 AM
I find an engineer in an Excelsior to be okay for PUGging. Generally speaking, Engineers should be healers just because that is what their tanking-oriented captain abilities benefit the most. (For example, an engineer can use EPS transfer to keep both aux and weapon power maxed at the same time, and they can afford to shoot all their BOff heals to other people since they still have Miracle Worker and RSF to fall back on.) But the problem with playing a heal-boat in a Fed PUG is that you very often wind up on a team with a bunch of "DPS cruisers" and zero escorts, so if you're not doing damage yourself you can't count on your team-mates for it either.

But if you're an engineer and you need something to add a little DPS while PUGging or doing PvE, the Excelsior is not horrible. Just be aware that most of your effective damage will come from EWP, so you'll want your Particle Generators as high as you can manage, and you'll probably want to time your Attack Pattern Omega use to coincide with laying down EWP.

I definitely wouldn't recommend the Excelsior for team play, but I've zoned into so many PUGs in a team-oriented heal-boat and found myself with four team-mates who are so focussed on staying alive that they neither need heals nor are able to carry their weight in DPS. Or else I wind up with a Recluse healer and find my healing cruiser entirely superfluous. In those cases, the team would be better off if I brought the Excelsior.

But if you're able to organize and balance the team at all beforehand, the engineer should be in a real healing boat.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 9
03-17-2013, 08:44 PM
All very solid points here, and I agree with most of it. However, its still really doesn't answer my question as to why the Regent would be better suited for an Eng captain than the Excelsior. Neither of them has a Cmdr and Lt Cmdr eng boff layout for EPtS3, so they both seem kind of crap for that roll to me.

I do tend to agree with the fact that Eng captains are kind of, lets say, less than worthwhile, in PvP. 90% of their ability to heal comes from the ship's boff layout, rather than the Captain. Rotate Shield Frequency is self only, which does allow for reaching the cap of shield damage reduction, but the difference between 60 SDR and 75 SDR seems minimal. And miracle working has such a long cool down, combined with the fact that it really is not that much of a difference maker. EPS is alright, but the same effect can be replicated by other skills. So on the point of Engineers being kind of pointless, I tend to agree. However, I will slug through it anyway.

It seems then, to be the most effective healboat or tank, I should roll with the free Assault cruiser, Fleet Heavy cruiser retrofit (which ever is the better one of the 2 fleet heavy cruiser), or an Ody (but with 6 turn, I won't pay money for that thing).

Yeah the Excel and the Regent do fine in ESTF's, but I have built them for PvP, so anything with a PvP build will Roflstomp PvE crap.

I have done a few PUG pvp matches, and I am just finding it harder and harder to find a roll as a tank. I dont really want to put the eng in an escort as its kind gimp, or switch to my Tac, but I'd hate to have all that work getting MK12 gear go to waste.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 659
# 10
03-17-2013, 10:25 PM
A) Character class doesn't really make that much of a difference. Yes, the alpha strike from a Tactical captain spikes more than either an Engineer or Science captain. After the alpha, the cool-downs on captain abilities shifts the advantage to the other two classes.

B) Regardless of your class, fly an escort.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:27 AM.