Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
# 111
03-18-2013, 03:24 PM
From a design standpoint, I like the idea of having a dedicated armor slot. If the engineering consoles are supposed to be techy things inside the ship, armor is absolutely NOT a techy thing IN the ship.

Depending on how they do this, this could be really really good, or really really bad.

If they were to give everyone an armor slot or slots (based on ship type?) and restrict current armor platings from the engineering console role, I think that frustrates a few people, but design wise, is better for the game and (most likely) the intended role of those consoles. I can't imagine it was by design that everyone stacked armor there. Survivability trumps all other options.

If they add this in and make a unique type of armor that goes there AND keep the existing armors in the game, and their existing functionality in engineering console slots, well... expect newer, multi spectrum versions of instant death attacks that blow straight through your shields.

So again. I think it could be really good... but it depends on how they implement it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 112
03-18-2013, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigadooom View Post
Escorts aren't meant to tank. They should never have been able to.

Give them 0.6. Give them a healthy bonus, perhaps the healthiest between escorts, scis and cruisers, to the armour console, to compensate so they can take a couple hits should their shields go down, enough to pop off a heal or two.

Scis already have rock hard high shields and decent hull, and Eng have very high and powerful hull and decent shields. Tacs should have low shields and awesome armour resistance for when their shields fail, at which point they beat a hasty retreat.
So very much agreed here.

Escorts: Lowest shields, moderate armor resistance
Cruisers: Average shields, high armor resistance
Science: Highest shields, moderate armor resistance

An Armor slot should be exactly that: Provide armor. "Ablative Armor" comes to mind, Polarized Hull Armor (NX-01) is another. Looking at the NX-01's armor, you have an armortype which for all intents and purposes, replaces shields. But rather than taking the full force of the damage dealt, the polarized hull redistributes the damage across the entire hull, rather than just the area impacted.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,908
# 113
03-18-2013, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticgeko View Post
Thanks for starting this discussion.

First, let?s take Warp Cores out of the discussion. If STO gets a Warp Core, it will have little to do with armor.

Here is the bottom line we are discussing internally:

? We want to add a ship armor slot. Having more itemization is good
? Armor means Damage Resistance (to be consistent with ground Armor). Other enhancement bonuses can be available
? We don?t want to raise the survivability of every ship in the game.
? We feel Cruisers could use an increase in survivability.
? Armor could be added as a set piece.
? Armor could offer a ship material change.


So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.

Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.


So bottom line, would you be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers you more options.

My suggestion - A variant of 'Option 2'.

1) REMOVE the existing Engineering Armor Consoles from the game entirely- maybe allow those that have them to turn them in for Dilithium or something else good - OR allow them to be converted to the equivalent new Armor Consoles AFTER you've made sure no more ENG Armor consoles will be dropping/made via crafting in game. (This also allows players wgho only fly Escorts a way to recoup for Armor consoles they can no longer use if their Escorts can't slot it.

2) Add the 'Armor Console Slots' to the various ships based on whether Cryptic wants that ship to equip armor (It may be that certain Escorts have no armor slots, Sci ships have one or more, Cruisers have thee, etc; BUT this allows Cryptic the flexability to to make 'Armor' a consideration for a certain ship class, regardless of the ship type, be it Escort, Science, or Cruiser.

^^^
this way Cryptic could make the changes it wants, Tacs and Scis get something in return if they were using Engineering Armor consoles, but no longer can - and ship survivability overall is largely unaffected (depending of how Cryptic designs the new armor consoles.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says: "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,711
# 114
03-18-2013, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedears View Post
how About Fixing The Bugs In Game Instead Of Adding More Usless Crud ? Is This All You Can Do These Days Is To Sit Around Making Stupid Ideas Up ? Do You Have Manatees That Throw Ideas Out Of A Huge Tank Of Water ? Not Impressed Gecko This Game Really Is Hitting A New Low
Oh Yes !!!

This
This
This
This Is The Post Of The Day !!!!!!
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

You're gonna upgrade my Chel Grett for FREE but charge me $27 to upgrade my Kamarag ?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,185
# 115
03-18-2013, 03:27 PM
Sorry, I disagree. We don't need an armor slot. The current resistance consoles are fine.

However, many (if not all) of the current "special" universal consoles should be turned into devices, to go in device slots. Give all C-Store and Fleet ships an extra device slot to compensate.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,879
# 116
03-18-2013, 03:28 PM
I actually got an idea about Option two.

Instead of a special armour type for cruiser that may be useless loot for the other two classes, what about the Cruisers getting an extra armor slot?

Like.... an escort or a science ship gets 2, a cruiser gets 4 armor slots for example?


Of course, I am assuming these slots would be taking the armour consoles that are currently now Engineering.


Or as told above, making universal consoles into a special universal console slot may be good too, so that they don't take up sci/tac/eng slots.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,711
# 117
03-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigadooom View Post
Escorts aren't meant to tank. They should never have been able to.

Give them 0.6. Give them a healthy bonus, perhaps the healthiest between escorts, scis and cruisers, to the armour console, to compensate so they can take a couple hits should their shields go down, enough to pop off a heal or two.

Scis already have rock hard high shields and decent hull, and Eng have very high and powerful hull and decent shields. Tacs should have low shields and awesome armour resistance for when their shields fail, at which point they beat a hasty retreat.
Ya buddy, give an NVAM Promethius 1/2 the shields of a freebie cruiser.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

You're gonna upgrade my Chel Grett for FREE but charge me $27 to upgrade my Kamarag ?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,044
# 118
03-18-2013, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticgeko View Post
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.

Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
I don't want to make dev life more difficult, but I prefer Option 2.

If you "get rid of" the existing Engineering Consoles, they could be replaced with identical "Standard Armor" items. This could actually decrease the survivability of some of the ships in-game, as it will only be possible to equip one of these in your Armor slot, instead of multiple items in your Engineering slots.

Cruisers can have Heavy Armor, or the ability to equip multiple pieces of armor, or have a default % bonus to the armor they equip, or something.

For those wondering about KDF cruisers: definitely a valid question, but I think one that could be addressed further down the line. Personally, I'd say let them have their Dual Heavy Cannons as well as Heavy Armor.

Edited to add: The only canon references to Armor I can think of are the Ablative Armor of the Defiant and Prometheus...I think it would be silly for this to be denied to the escorts in-game.

Last edited by jeffel82; 03-18-2013 at 03:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 989
# 119
03-18-2013, 03:35 PM
Reply to Geko's post

All in all, I think Option 1 is the one I like the most and the safest. Option 2 without know details of exiting Armor console changes, I vote no unless I know more.

And Option 2seems the most potential for causing conflict with the players. Remember the uproar that changing the Field Generator consoles from Engineering to Science and despite assurances existing slotted consoles would be not moved, were (re)moved to overflow bag. And the morphing of Science Consoles with the skills revamped of Season 5. A lot of player got consoles which were useless to them and were stuck with them (i.e. bound).

And sets solely for Cruisers? Do you really want to go there? You eventually gave players access to the MACO and Honor Guard Sets to the other faction (albeit with a paying through the nose cost.).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 989
# 120
03-18-2013, 03:38 PM
Gives self a dunce cap for failure to read post.

Last edited by lordfuzun; 03-18-2013 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Adding dunce cap
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:33 AM.