Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 201
03-19-2013, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
There's no lunacy. Cruisers were designed from the get-go to have higher survival based on larger hulls and more console slots that could be used for armor.

What's the balance measure if Escorts get even more armor now? Less DPS? Slower turn rate?
I guess you missed the part where the addition of an armor slot on all ships would necessitate a complete rework of armor consoles. Toss in the heavy armor variants and hey presto, cruisers still have better survival, but now have actual options on what they want to do with engineering slots instead of mashing armor and gimmick consoles.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 202
03-19-2013, 02:28 PM
My suggestion:

Armor Slot for all ship types (Escorts can equip Light Armor, Science Light/Medium, Cruisers Medium/Heavy)

The heavier the armor, the more survivability you get. On the flipside, you'll lose agility (turn rate mostly). This would ofcourse necessitate a full rebalance of current turn rates (especially on Cruisers).
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,253
# 203
03-19-2013, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
My suggestion:

Armor Slot for all ship types (Escorts can equip Light Armor, Science Light/Medium, Cruisers Medium/Heavy)

The heavier the armor, the more survivability you get. On the flipside, you'll lose agility (turn rate mostly). This would ofcourse necessitate a full rebalance of current turn rates (especially on Cruisers).
i would say thats a good idea, especially the armor adding weight effect.
though i wouldnt limit armour grades since if the agility rates where redone properly the weight penalty would be equal across classes.
Cryptic.
Figure out and address the players path of least resistance to reward. this one thing is THE consistent factor undermining all your efforts. be that crafting, raids or starbase projects.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 775
# 204
03-19-2013, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
I'm rather hesitant to throw my 2 cents in because I'm not sure we've been given a good explanation of the Dev's intent .



Ok so where is this coming from ?
Is it coming from -- we have too many items that don't get equipped ?
Or is this coming from -- we want to sell you more items but we are concerned that you won't buy them because you are too busy stacking armor consoles to slot anything else .

Because if you genuinely want to give us more slots -- to slot that next console you want to sell us -- then do that instead of talking about 'armor' .




Why is that ?
It's ok , you can give us the numbers ... some of us might actually understand (and translate it for the rest of us) .
I'm sure you've not missed it but 'we feel' that Cruisers could use some more DPS via Beam weapons .



And the above is what got me the feeling of 'not enough info' .
Does this mean that that you're intending to roll up all the exotic Engineering Damage Resistance consoles (be they based on energy or kinetic) into a ball and call is simply "armor" ?

Would this 'armor' come in special flavors ?
Would there be more than one slot for 'armor' ?

More info needed .
I agree with Aelfwin on this one currently, we need more information on the subject.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,860
# 205
03-19-2013, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
If you had a separate Armor slot, you could use your Engineering console slots for Turn Consoles and +Weapon power consoles. Not a perfect solution, but it would help.

I think separate armor slots are something that should apply to Cruisers only.
There are escorts with 4 engineering console slots; even the defiant has 3 engineering console slots. If armor consoles can no longer be equipped in engineering slots, then escorts will just stack RCS accelerators. Cruisers attempting the same thing will get much less benefit from RCS accelerators. The result will be to further increase the turning advantage escorts have over cruisers.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,802
# 206
03-19-2013, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
There are escorts with 4 engineering console slots; even the defiant has 3 engineering console slots. If armor consoles can no longer be equipped in engineering slots, then escorts will just stack RCS accelerators. Cruisers attempting the same thing will get much less benefit from RCS accelerators. The result will be to further increase the turning advantage escorts have over cruisers.
That's kinda why I suggested to apply armor slots to Cruisers only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,145
# 207
03-19-2013, 03:38 PM
I have a thought:

Instead of disrupting the console layout synergy we currently have why not have the armour consoles in their current form apply their resists to a ship the same way the shields do. In fact, why not use the same shield mod number already in use by the shield system ?

I admit it may make some ships incredibly tough (temporal science ship) but it might make things more manageable in the long run on a ship by ship basis.

No, I don't like either of the devs ideas but if it has to be done I think my idea would produce less 'sticker shock' from not having to invent an entire new class of armour, or revamp every piece we currently have, and where/when we use it.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,483
# 208
03-19-2013, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
The premise seems flawed - cruisers need more DPS, not more survivability.
Exactly. In a cruiser, I can tank for any length of time against any enemy that can't kill me in a single attack.

Ever done a 1v1 PvP match between two cruisers? I have. It's painful. We could both heal in excess of the damage the other could do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,302
# 209
03-19-2013, 06:16 PM
yup only time i die is when i don't pay attention or when i focus on keeping team mates alive

currently only time i die is do to a 200,000 damage hy3 plasma torp


that's PvE don't PvP much but i figure i would probably die pretty quick
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 210
03-19-2013, 08:07 PM
I'm just going to leave this here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
You'd think that they are in this game, but they aren't. They're outclassed at both support and tanking by carriers.

If the STO made Federation cruisers more like canon, they'd be more like bigger and tougher Birds of Prey with no cloaking. They would be something like a Mario: the average middle-of-the-road vessel that doesn't excel at anything in particular, but does fairly well at anything.

Galaxy-class vessels were actually quite sprightly, even if they were massive vessels. Certainly, they were nowhere near as massive as Jem'Hadar Dreadnoughts. However, in STO, Jem'Hadar Dreadnoughts actually handle slightly better than a Galaxy-class cruiser, in spite of being close to three times the size and with higher natural durability. They can mount DHCs, and also come with hangar bays and inherent subsystem targeting, while a Galaxy of the same level has... Saucer Separation.

What the hell is a cruiser supposed to do that makes it better than any other vessel can't do better? With my support cruiser, I take pride in my healing abilities and can do it as well (if not better) than a lot of cruisers. I can tank pretty well too, if I'm not being forced to keep fire off of a friendly. Imagine my shock when a Tactical captain shows up in a Caitian and proceeds to outheal me by approximately 200,000 hitpoints.

I think we're going to have to man-up and face the fact that Federation cruisers have fallen far, far behind.
Armour consoles might be a step in the right direction, but I think we are going to have to start asking ourselves what a cruiser is supposed to be doing in the first place.
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