Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 23
# 41
03-17-2013, 07:28 PM
I really like the idea, but i thinking of it as something not just for Cruiser but all ships. I've felt the idea that a Warp Core to separate out the Warp/Impulse effects for ships was much needed, and I see this as a similar opportunity.

I see two alternate options to just a purely Light, Medium, Heavy Armour.

Armour Slot: All ships get a Hull Armour slot in balance with the original goal of a ships classification. Escorts can Slot light armour (Which may provide a boost to weapon systems in addition to the small armour bonus), Science vessels can slot up to Medium Armour (which has a moderate boost to Aux or something) and Cruisers can slot up to Heavy Armour (Pure armourness). This would allow Cruisers to use their Eng slots for other things, but similarly give a player the option of slotting a less heavy armour for a different secondary benefit.

Hull Slot: Rather than call it armour make it a "Hull Hardpoint" and allow the various categories to gain appropriate items, Heavy Armour for cruisers, 2nd Deflector for Sci, RCS Overthrusters or [insert other item here] for escorts (something which adds to a escorts ability to dodge fire, not just more turn). You could similarly allow hybrid items to go in this slot.

As for the existing armours, they could become crew damage mitigation consoles or simply a percentage multiplier to the new Hull Armour Slot. I would though love to see all the Engineering consoles especially the +Power consoles to be re-examined so they provide benefits which aren't capped or which feel less pointless over RCS, Universals and Neutroniums.

- Raith
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 42
03-17-2013, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistalion View Post
I really like the idea, but i thinking of it as something not just for Cruiser but all ships. I've felt the idea that a Warp Core to separate out the Warp/Impulse effects for ships was much needed, and I see this as a similar opportunity.

I see two alternate options to just a purely Light, Medium, Heavy Armour.

Armour Slot: All ships get a Hull Armour slot in balance with the original goal of a ships classification. Escorts can Slot light armour (Which may provide a boost to weapon systems in addition to the small armour bonus), Science vessels can slot up to Medium Armour (which has a moderate boost to Aux or something) and Cruisers can slot up to Heavy Armour (Pure armourness). This would allow Cruisers to use their Eng slots for other things, but similarly give a player the option of slotting a less heavy armour for a different secondary benefit.

Hull Slot: Rather than call it armour make it a "Hull Hardpoint" and allow the various categories to gain appropriate items, Heavy Armour for cruisers, 2nd Deflector for Sci, RCS Overthrusters or [insert other item here] for escorts (something which adds to a escorts ability to dodge fire, not just more turn). You could similarly allow hybrid items to go in this slot.

As for the existing armours, they could become crew damage mitigation consoles or simply a percentage multiplier to the new Hull Armour Slot. I would though love to see all the Engineering consoles especially the +Power consoles to be re-examined so they provide benefits which aren't capped or which feel less pointless over RCS, Universals and Neutroniums.

- Raith
Overcomplicating things; keep it simple.

Move armour consoles to their own dedicated slot. Birds of Prey, Escorts and Science Vessels have one (maybe two) slots, while Cruisers have two (maybe three) slots. Hybrid vessels receive armour console slots depending on their primary boff emphasis, or whichever number of slots at the developer's discretion. Shuttlecraft get one slot.

Alternative to consider is implementing a multiplier or tiered system, whereby ship classification will determine how much of a benefit that an armour console provides. If a cruiser gets a bonus of 25% from a console, then an escort and science vessel might get a bonus of 20%. As for talk of "heavy" armour consoles, I would like to know what would differentiate them from regular consoles, and why people would consider putting them in.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 43
03-17-2013, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistalion View Post
I really like the idea, but i thinking of it as something not just for Cruiser but all ships. I've felt the idea that a Warp Core to separate out the Warp/Impulse effects for ships was much needed, and I see this as a similar opportunity.

I see two alternate options to just a purely Light, Medium, Heavy Armour.

Armour Slot: All ships get a Hull Armour slot in balance with the original goal of a ships classification. Escorts can Slot light armour (Which may provide a boost to weapon systems in addition to the small armour bonus), Science vessels can slot up to Medium Armour (which has a moderate boost to Aux or something) and Cruisers can slot up to Heavy Armour (Pure armourness). This would allow Cruisers to use their Eng slots for other things, but similarly give a player the option of slotting a less heavy armour for a different secondary benefit.

Hull Slot: Rather than call it armour make it a "Hull Hardpoint" and allow the various categories to gain appropriate items, Heavy Armour for cruisers, 2nd Deflector for Sci, RCS Overthrusters or [insert other item here] for escorts (something which adds to a escorts ability to dodge fire, not just more turn). You could similarly allow hybrid items to go in this slot.

As for the existing armours, they could become crew damage mitigation consoles or simply a percentage multiplier to the new Hull Armour Slot. I would though love to see all the Engineering consoles especially the +Power consoles to be re-examined so they provide benefits which aren't capped or which feel less pointless over RCS, Universals and Neutroniums.

- Raith
I like this idea a lot. Only thing I disagree is making the stuff for escorts be more defense or more dps. Let them have much better turn and accuracy instead. I LOVE the idea of science ships receiving a second deflector. Auxiliary Deflector Arrays..these arrays available with only 2 deflector stats which they boost significantly. (+50 and up). Who knows, maybe science might be functional then?
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,291
# 44
03-17-2013, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistalion View Post
RCS Overthrusters or [insert other item here] for escorts (something which adds to a escorts ability to dodge fire, not just more turn).
uh, no...escorts already have ridiculous amounts of defense as it is, making them nearly impossible to hit; they don't need more
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 743
# 45
03-17-2013, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Here is a novel idea.

Balance what you already have in the game. Maybe if cruiser beams were not so suck tastic for the average player your regent would have sold a bit better. Or if the fleet version wasn't tier 5 SB.

I mean it really is just a mirror of the KDF Fleet cruiser (tier 2 btw) boff layout and stats minus DHCs. One ship is highly praised the other didn't sell very well.

Doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist or a doctorate in physiology to figure this one out. But no instead we get the...

Cruisers are unpopular because their beam damage is low so I know we'll make them even more tanky that'll fix it!

Bah.

(PS) Second Sci Deflector is a really good idea tho aside from the obvious double two set piece advantage I doubt they could code around or take into account with balance. Perhaps just let Sci vessels double the bonuses from the deflector would be a better idea.
This was the only really on point posting in this whole thread if you ask me. Cruisers habe no problem tanking so why should anything get better for them if you make them ehen better tanks than they already are? My engi captain and his oddy can basically tank almost everything from taccubes gates borg-neghvars whatever.

Escorts where OP at some point in the past so people started buying more escorts up go the point where cryptic now thinks they have to make more and more escorts because they sell better. Make a cruiser with beams that use engine power and the dmg of single cannons or whatever something like that and im quite sure it will sell as well as any escort.

In one interview stahl said there where klingon ships where they lost money... Well im quite sure its one of those useless T1-T3 ships or something else useless. Its outright funny to think they wonder why all those totally useless ships dont sell.. Only very few people pay 2500 zen for a wide angle torpedo launcher ...

And well lets be honest.. Cruisers NEED a torpedo launcher like that otherwise its just plain useless because you have to usw broadsides.. Or well just switch to single cannons or something. So they basically criple every ship class other than escorts. Like with the vesta and the aux cannons where there is basically nothing out there making sence for the aft slots ecept ofc the cutting beam. Before the nerf to the tricobalt mines one at least could use those but now its just plain and simple stupi to usw the aux cannons in there.

Well just my opinion but thats how i see it..
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,390
# 46
03-17-2013, 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsteward View Post
Cruisers habe no problem tanking
I've spent the past week running my Mirror Universe Star Cruiser (so it LOOKS like an Imperial but plays like a Nomad) through elite STFs.

I have 6 ranks in threat.

But since it's a star cruiser I have only 2 tac BOFF powers and 2 tactical consoles.

I'm not that good at damage.

But good lord this thing can take a beating. It's an Engineer captain flying it so there's even more defense abilities at the character's disposal, but sheesh, I only need that when fighting off like two 3-man squads of raptors, or 3 spheres and some probes or whatever.

I've spent about 5 solid days keeping the IKS Kang alive. The ship does its job. It tanks. It supports.

Makes me wonder what Armor consoles really bring to the table? I don't know. Depends on what else happens. Like will it be stacked on top of the armor I already equip? Or will it remove armor to that new console, and let me run like +shield or +weapons power consoles?

But yeah, tanking? Cruisers already have a good handle on that. At this point I think Borg-Donatra, the Assimilated Carrier, and the Queen must hate my ship. Heh.

EDIT: I'm not saying Cruisers are fine. I'm not saying beams are fine. I'm only saying "tanking" is fine. I've also been running another character through elite STFs with my Intrepid Retrofit, to get a handle on what Science can bring to the table. That's been an interesting experience. But still the most relaxed and easy time I have in STFs is still my tactical character in his Charal. Pew Pew Pew is easy on the brain.

Last edited by snoggymack22; 03-17-2013 at 11:05 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 47
03-17-2013, 11:14 PM
On a semi-related note, does anyone remember the reasoning why the + x power to subsystem consoles were nerfed to uselessness?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 48
03-17-2013, 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
I've spent the past week running my Mirror Universe Star Cruiser (so it LOOKS like an Imperial but plays like a Nomad) through elite STFs.

I have 6 ranks in threat.

But since it's a star cruiser I have only 2 tac BOFF powers and 2 tactical consoles.

I'm not that good at damage.

But good lord this thing can take a beating. It's an Engineer captain flying it so there's even more defense abilities at the character's disposal, but sheesh, I only need that when fighting off like two 3-man squads of raptors, or 3 spheres and some probes or whatever.

I've spent about 5 solid days keeping the IKS Kang alive. The ship does its job. It tanks. It supports.

Makes me wonder what Armor consoles really bring to the table? I don't know. Depends on what else happens. Like will it be stacked on top of the armor I already equip? Or will it remove armor to that new console, and let me run like +shield or +weapons power consoles?

But yeah, tanking? Cruisers already have a good handle on that. At this point I think Borg-Donatra, the Assimilated Carrier, and the Queen must hate my ship. Heh.

EDIT: I'm not saying Cruisers are fine. I'm not saying beams are fine. I'm only saying "tanking" is fine. I've also been running another character through elite STFs with my Intrepid Retrofit, to get a handle on what Science can bring to the table. That's been an interesting experience. But still the most relaxed and easy time I have in STFs is still my tactical character in his Charal. Pew Pew Pew is easy on the brain.
Cruisers are amazing at tanking and wonderful support ships. Even the tactically oriented ones are like that. The only catch here is that in most cases, tanking and support are generally unnecessary in almost all end-game PvE content. There are escorts that can do both of those roles well enough that the little bit more that cruisers have isn't needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badname834854 View Post
On a semi-related note, does anyone remember the reasoning why the + x power to subsystem consoles were nerfed to uselessness?
Too powerful. They used to give +8 at mk XII purple I believe, someone will have to confirm/deny this, and as you can imagine, it was considered too much and subsequently nerfed.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 743
# 49
03-18-2013, 06:33 AM
I guess what we really need is enemys shooting at more than one target. Then while my ceuiser is still tanking most of the dmg the escorts and every other ship would get dmg as well and then the armor slot thing to have escorts take more dmg from that.

I feel the goal should be that without a cruiser to tank the main dmg escorts should be limited to hit and run tactics. And if a cruiser is present the escorts still geht enough hurt to force them away if no cruiser/sci is supporting them with heals/enemy debuffs/asf..

That would be at least in my point of view be an optimal situation where no class is really needed but if present can function in a vital role. As long as escorts can tank enough themselves cruisers are just useless. And just to be honest, when i fly my escort and the best thing to do is just park my ship like 1km away directly in front of my enemy is the best tactic for me I really find it boring as hell.

Maybe if defence would be more important for escorts to be able to do their dmg it would force them to move around constantly and thus limit their dmg potential.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 50
03-18-2013, 06:58 AM
If they moved hull resists to the "new" armor slots while turning existing resist consoles into some sort of new defensive console set (shield resists, additional defense, etc.) things could get very interesting.
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