Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 1 A simple idea to fix engineers
03-17-2013, 06:10 PM
Engineers have the weakest fleet ability in the game, so how about adding this to Engineering Fleet:

Immunity to SNB for 15 seconds.

That would do it, I think.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 79
# 2
03-17-2013, 06:22 PM
This would be a counter for double sub nuc

Double sub nuc being the only way to kill good engineer tankers

I think the problem is not with the class it self but with weapons and healing.

An 8 beam broadside which used to be the Engineers choice of weapon load out as they could counter the power drain simply is no more than a disco effect now days.

When back in the day it rivaled Tactical's and there Cannons
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Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 3
03-17-2013, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Engineers have the weakest fleet ability in the game, so how about adding this to Engineering Fleet:

Immunity to SNB for 15 seconds.

That would do it, I think.
Yes, I suppose that would fix everything that's wrong with Engineers and cruisers, like the fact that Nadion Inversion is only useful for negating their weaknesses, that EPS is pretty much pointless as a result of the general power boost afforded by Warp Core doffs, that their damage sucks, or that they don't really have a role in the game since Science carriers are much better at both tanking and support. However, I'm pretty sure that all the tacs and escort captains would appreciate the immunity in PvP. As for PvE... what is this supposed to help wtih?

Last edited by eraserfish; 03-17-2013 at 07:11 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 4
03-17-2013, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
Yes, I suppose that would fix everything that's wrong with Engineers and cruisers, like the fact that Nadion Inversion is only useful for negating their weaknesses, that EPS is pretty much pointless as a result of the general power boost afforded by Warp Core doffs, that their damage sucks, or that they don't really have a role in the game since Science carriers are much better at both tanking and support.
All of those things will potentially change with the FAW fix. The wisest thing to do is wait and reevaluate. The change I'm advocating is a good step regardless of what happens with FAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
However, I'm pretty sure that all the tacs and escort captains would appreciate the immunity in PvP. As for PvE... what is this supposed to help wtih?
Nothing. You can't balance around PvE because it's a mindless DPS race. If you bumped up damage from science and engineering captains in cruisers and science ships to anywhere near that of a tacscort you'd never want an escort or tactical captain in PvP. The only possible fix to PvE is to make it suck less, and have NPCs behave more like player characters and not brainless HP meat bags.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
# 5
03-17-2013, 07:50 PM
Just add a "IhealAll" button. Heals all of your team mates with one button. The down side is it kills you. The "IHealAll" maneuver counters the "IWin" button.

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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 6
03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Nothing. You can't balance around PvE because it's a mindless DPS race. If you bumped up damage from science and engineering captains in cruisers and science ships to anywhere near that of a tacscort you'd never want an escort or tactical captain in PvP. The only possible fix to PvE is to make it suck less, and have NPCs behave more like player characters and not brainless HP meat bags.
If NPCs had some damage setting between "tickle" and "one-shot", then healers and tanks could have a role in PvE at least. But since all ships can either easily heal through NPC damage, or else they blow up in a few seconds depending on which attack hits, healing is irrelevant.

Basically, hull strength is binary -- either you are at nearly 100%, or you blow up, with not enough degrees in between to make healing really viable in PvE.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 7
03-17-2013, 08:36 PM
Interesting idea. At the very least we may see more 2 - 2 - 1 teams after that.

My idea was making Miracle Worker castable and that one of the bonuses should give the target a brief immunity to SNB.


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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,830
# 8
03-17-2013, 09:01 PM
Doesn't fix the class....

Makes the idea of carrying one Engi on a premade worthwhile.

Still doesn't address some of the other major issues with the class right now. Power creep has made them mostly redundant. I don't even see this change making them that attractive.

I think premade wise even with a change like that to the engi fleet skill... you would likely still be better off with out the engi at all.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,330
# 9
03-17-2013, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
The wisest thing to do is wait and reevaluate.
Which is where we pretty much sit in limbo waiting to see what comes of that lightning targeting fix in regard to certain abilities with their mods and procs. Until we know how that fix changes the game, other changes could just create additional problems...

...besides, Engineers do not counter SNB - why would Engineering Fleet add protection against SNB? Besides, all that would mean would be that nobody dies during the duration of EFleet and then it's back to normal. It just continues the sense that skill in PvP is not skill in PvP, but rather it's skill in gimmicks. The team with the most skill in using their gimmicks shall win...meh.

...that being said though, I'm in favor of hardening systems: pseudo to-hit rolls for certain abilities without to-hit rolls (example: Jam Sensors being a pseudo to-hit roll based on the respective skills of the two players involved - CMS + JS Rank vs. Sensors). I also think that the various +pwr Engineering consoles should also provide additional drain/proc resistance. All sorts of things - somebody said I've got a spiderweb of ideas out there that lack contextual references to each other since they're spread out all over the place.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 10
03-17-2013, 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Engineers have the weakest fleet ability in the game, so how about adding this to Engineering Fleet:

Immunity to SNB for 15 seconds.

That would do it, I think.
Could do. Engi fleet is the weakest of all, by far.

Imo tho, engineers simply suck because they got the weakest captain abilities (EPS, Nadion) and the ones that ARE handy (Miracle, RSF, etc) are not viable because in pvp there is not much reason to shoot at a engineer because its not dangerous enough, is a big zombie, etcetera, and doesnth ave deadly stuff like APA/SNB.

So in a nutshell, RSF, miracle, etc is only viable if the engineer was a reason to be an important focus, with its current captain abilities, no.

Sure, Engi's can cast off more external heals to others because he has more self heals for himself, and again an equal player on the other side being a sci would nuke that all off in a second.

APA/GDF Tac Awesome
SNB/SenScan Sci Awesome
RSF... just 1? :C Great, but reliant and dependant on whethr the opposite side is dumb enough to focus on you..

Cheers!

Last edited by darkfader1988; 03-17-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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