Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,431
# 11
03-18-2013, 01:53 AM
eng fleet should grant 50 skill in shield repair, hull repair, and subsystem repair, in addition to what it does. you know, boosting healing?
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 12
03-18-2013, 02:00 AM
Anything at this point in time is a step up.

snb immunity, why not. I'm with the it won't be enough camp on this one, as mt pointed out its not just eng fleet that is underperforming. The remaining cpt powers are bleh as well.



As for F@W fix......i lol'ed.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 325
# 13
03-19-2013, 01:27 AM
Anyone who thinks Engineers are irrelevant in PvP simply has not been on a team with a good one. Give me a team with two TacScorts, Two SciSci and One good Engineer over any other setup.

BTW, EPS is one of the most valuable skills ever. Try giving it to your best escort instead of trying to use it on yourself. There isn't anything more awesome than flying my Armitage having my Engi repairing my hull, buffing my shields and keeping my weapons and shields power at a constant 125.

Also, FYI, most of the really, really good Engi Healboats I know are TORPEDO boats. Lets them keep high Aux Power for heals and those Torpedos Spreads with Transphasics sure make the Danubes and other spam go away.

If you want to do Mondo Kirk damage output playing an Engineer, try this build. FYI, everything on this build can be gotten for free from Episodes except the consoles. I regularly win SB 24 and Gorn Minefield with this ship.

BREEN CRUISER ENGINEER MONDO KIRK DAMAGE BUILD:

FORE:
2x Dominion Beam Beam Array (alternately one Dominion Array, One Phased Polaron)
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher
Breen Cluster Torpedo

AFT:
2x Dominion Beam Beam Array (alternately one Dominion Array, One Phased Polaron)
Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedo Launcher
Breen Cluster Torpedo

CONSOLES:
ENG:
Borg, RCS, Neutronium
SCI:
Breen Dissapator, 2xEmitter (Embassy Plasma Infused if you can get them)
TAC:
4xPolaron Phase Modulator

Breen Space Set (boosts Transphasic Damage and also give Energy Siphon power for free)

BOFFS:
Cmndr Tac: TT1, Torp Spread 2 APO1, APO2 (3 if you can get it trained for you)
Lt Tac: TT1, Torp Spread 2
Ens Uni: Beam Target Shields 1
Lt Eng: EPTS1, EPTS2 (put on Tray 7 if using Hilbert Bind)
Lt Cmndr Sci: Tractor Beam 1, Hazard Emitters2, Grav Well 1

EPS--->> Broadside--->Target Shields--->Turn and Drop Spread and Cluster---->Aux Battery--->Grav Well--->Evasive Manuevers---> Backside Torp Spread and Cluster--->
REPEAT

Enjoy! And Engineers, don;t listen to the naysayers. You ARE definitely worhtwhile teammates in PvP. Talk to some OPvP veteran healers and learn the tricks and you will be the first one us TacScorts look for when building a team. (Okay, maybe we'll hit up the guy with the Evil Wells/Korath first so they can SUBNUC everything for us, but you wil be the second one if not the first.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 14
03-19-2013, 02:06 AM
i got a great fix for engineers. some dude in arenas like "hey whats takin so long". i hadnt even targeted him, as thre were name branders in the pugmatch, and it was going marginally even so i did what i always do and went for the hard targets.

Well he asked for it, poor engineer....

Your Dual Antiproton Banks - Overload III deals 71928 (62491) Antiproton Damage(Critical) to Rena.

cus he needed more.. something.. something....
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,582
# 15
03-19-2013, 02:38 AM
The Kill:

Sci - SNB/Sensor Scan
Tac - APA, FoMM, TacFleet, TacInit, GDF

The Denial:

Sci - SNB/Scattering Field

The Issue:

Eng - doesn't bring anything to The Kill and doesn't help with The Denial unless the Eng is the target

The Resolution:

Eng - bring as much to The Denial for a team as a Tac brings to The Kill
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 16
03-19-2013, 03:13 AM
definitely, improving the engineering fleet, and boosting nadion inversion a little, like adding immunity to disables, holds and drains, adding that subnuke immunity to the eng fleet, or improving its dmg resistance could do it

eng fleet is pretty weak compared to sci fleet, nadion inversion is 100% useless to torpedo boats ( i guess devs forgot torpedoes ) , other players can get the same effect by having a dem

energy siphon is stronger than eps power transfer, i mean, really

engineers could do better if nadion inversion were usefull like immunity to disables, holds, and drains for 30 secs

eps power transfer is not that bad, but again, if you are a torpedo boat, it will add useless power to weapons, useless power to shields if you are using a covariant, and useless power to aux since you allready have aux maxed in torpedo boats

and eng fleet with that subnuke immunity to all the team for 15 secs, plus a little boost to the dmg resistance, that would make the perfect premade team to have an eng or two xP
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 17
03-19-2013, 08:11 AM
Here's an idea based upon 2 BOff abilities that involves all 3 ship/captain types and the current state of resists/healing.

The first has to do with the high survivability of some ships that should not be so tough, mainly escorts. The main engineering boff ability used by escorts to attribute this to is RSP. In essence, it gives an escort a 'free life' and leaves too large of a window for someone to heal them and/or put them in extends.

The second is extends. I have seen quite a few matches lately with 3 copies of extends going at once. It is leading to stagnant and/or boring matches, even in the q's.

Both of these abilities are available at Lt. BOff stations. Bump them up a level where grade 1 is Lt. Cmd. from skill trainer, grade 2 is Cmd. from skill trainer, and grade 3 is Cmd. trained by: an Engineer. No more magic saves from escorts and it would hamper the ability of sci ships to carry extends as easily as they do now.

With it's inherent self survival skills and now the one protecting teammates, it would give an engineer/cruiser a solid place on a team and it would also relieve us of some of the zombies.
RHINO | SAD PANDAS
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 18
03-19-2013, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainf00k View Post
/snip.
TBH i never understood why Cryptic buffed RSP, a few months after it had been nerfed into more reasonable state.

But since beam boats, PI, and skilling into NI is all WAD. I doubt that anything usefull will happen to engs. STill, I sort of like the idea of bumping ES1 and RSP1 to Lt Cmdr. If only they had the tech , to do something like it.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 19
03-19-2013, 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The Kill:

Sci - SNB/Sensor Scan
Tac - APA, FoMM, TacFleet, TacInit, GDF

The Denial:

Sci - SNB/Scattering Field

The Issue:

Eng - doesn't bring anything to The Kill and doesn't help with The Denial unless the Eng is the target

The Resolution:

Eng - bring as much to The Denial for a team as a Tac brings to The Kill
How's this:

Engineering Fleet: Boosts Shield Repair, Hull Repair, and Subsystem Repair in addition to it's current effects (thanks DDIS).

Nadion Inversion: current effects, but in an AOE affecting the entire team, similar to Scattering Field, making an engineer on the team a good counter against drains, as well as a modest boost to DPS.

Miracle Worker: castable on anyone, Note that while boosting team healing, this would make the engineer themselves much more fragile, as part of the value in MW as a 'reserve heal' is that currently the engineer couldn't use it on a team-mate even if he wanted.

RSF: unchanged. The reason I would keep this self-only while making MW castable is that resistances in PvP are already excessively powerful. By itself, the healing from MW is extremely powerful, but in practice it doesn't last long without some sort of shield or hull hardening to accompany it. Making MW castable basically gives the target a second life, but adding RSF on top of that also makes them basically invulnerable.

EPS Transfer: unchanged.


Do that and suddenly the engineer is valuable for healing and team-protection, even if they aren't flying around in a real healing ship.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 20
03-19-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainf00k View Post
The first has to do with the high survivability of some ships that should not be so tough, mainly escorts. The main engineering boff ability used by escorts to attribute this to is RSP. In essence, it gives an escort a 'free life' and leaves too large of a window for someone to heal them and/or put them in extends.
Hey bud.

What would they realistically take in place of those at that point?

"Fixing" survivability that comes with basic boff powers instead of the actual issue which is all of the passives resistances and heals that have been added, only makes for an even worse design than we have now.

A friend, , showed me a pretty impressive damage score using a sci ship.

Maybe we should move TS and BFAW to Lt as well?


You're suggesting to remove base survivability tools from escorts, at which point I'd counter with completely removing base damage tools from other ships.

Neither is a good prospect to fix the real issue of runaway passives.


As long as the grand trump card of SNB continues to exist like it does, and Bort has commented directly they're happy with it (I have no issue with it, personally either) - then powers like RSP/EPTS are things you are nuke off, brute force a kill through or switch targets.


You're changes would also hamstring more than a few of the last remaining offense capable cruiser builds and KDF battle cruiser builds.




Quote:
Originally Posted by captainf00k View Post
With it's inherent self survival skills and now the one protecting teammates, it would give an engineer/cruiser a solid place on a team and it would also relieve us of some of the zombies.
Unfortunately, no, it wouldn't.

Wells and Recluse have taken the place of a Cruiser specifically because they can use high tier Engineering powers. (Even the Vesta can do this to an extent).

Your changes wouldn't change that, and you'd still see a Sci captain in either of those ships be the better choice than an Eng/Cruiser.


Eng needs to have a few abilities that are more team focused, and game changing.

Eng fleet granting SNB protection could be one of them, MW and RSF being castable on others would be good as well.

I think those 3 changes alone could suddenly catapult Eng into a new position of value on a team.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 03-19-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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