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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
Over the past few months I've made the jump in to PvP. I've found it to be a very steep learning curve. I do miss using certain abilities as they're completely useless in PvP however for the most part I'm finding myself having a great time.

I feel that it needs one major improvement, however. It needs dedicated Pre-made and PUG queues.

Sometime a player just wants to go in by himself without their fleet as it suits their timing. Or maybe a player has 10 or so minutes before they have to do something else and there's not enough time to coordinate with their fleet. Regardless of the many reasons there are times that a player will need to go in to a queue by themselves.

And then they come across one of the super-PvP fleets fronting a pre-made. And then they die and die and die and die because no PUG can ever really compete with them. And then the experience feels like a waste of time and it ceases to become enjoyable.

By no means am I begrudging the people who refine their skills to the degree that they're seemingly immortal. They work hard to achieve that level and that shouldn't be taken away from them. Still, shouldn't they be pitted against other pre-mades so that they can really test their skill and be confronted with the real prospect of losing rather than being presented with a straight up slaughter?

Having a pre-made and PUG queue will support the PUGgers who are looking for a quick game or are trying to refine their skills away from the uber-killers. A pre-made queue will provide those uber-killers with the challenge that they rightfully deserve.

Overall, I think the game can only benefit from this. Thoughts?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 98
# 2
03-18-2013, 08:02 AM
We don't have the playerbase to support it, queue times would be bad, for one or the other if not both. From what I can tell there really aren't that many fleet premades out there (about 7 that I can remember seeing in the queues), you're more likely to run into an organizedPvP pugmade IMO.

That being said those big mean fleet premades aren't invincible. You'd be surprised what a pug can accomplish with a simple T "team Target >> $target <<" keybind as long as someone is willing to lead and the rest comply.
24 Hours a day, 365 days a week.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 3
03-18-2013, 08:11 AM
Pre-mades from fleets that don't usually field pre-mades aren't horrible to face, since they usually have a few players in PvE builds, who might have very little experience.

On the other hand, if you take a couple of the serious PvPers in their best ships and put them in PUGs, those PUGs usually do very well. There are a few names that I've almost never seen on a loosing PUG team, or even if they lose they still squeak out 8 or 10 kills even against pre-mades.

Seriously if you have one person on a PUG who calls targets and chooses them wisely, and the rest of the PUG follows, then you have 90% of the coordination a premade has. The rest of the difference comes from individual player skill, ship builds, etc., and there's nothing stopping those players from PUGging too.

Basically if you have a premade that comes from a fleet doing their PvP night, with a mix of experience levels and builds which might or might not be optimized, a group of more focused PvPers who just have someone with a target keybind can and often will win, PUG or not.


If anything matching should somehow weigh experience levels. I' know that's difficult, but I've seen games that do it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 4
03-18-2013, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Overall, I think the game can only benefit from this. Thoughts?
Main issue is that there are not enough pre-formed teams to actually maintain a full queue for it, and in fact the PvP ques in general have such a low population overall that separation would do more harm then good at this point.

Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 5
03-18-2013, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dummyname View Post
We don't have the playerbase to support it, queue times would be bad, for one or the other if not both. From what I can tell there really aren't that many fleet premades out there (about 7 that I can remember seeing in the queues), you're more likely to run into an organizedPvP pugmade IMO.

That being said those big mean fleet premades aren't invincible. You'd be surprised what a pug can accomplish with a simple T "team Target >> $target <<" keybind as long as someone is willing to lead and the rest comply.
This. I'll also add that having a solo-queue only without any checks or balances to make matches based on player skill, captain/ship combinations, and to a lesser degree gear, isn't really gonna work out any better. You'll still get teamed up against players that are used to working as a team and have a fairly well balanced selection of ships at their disposal while your team is 2 Eng/Escorts, 1 Tac/Cruisers (beams) and one lone Sci Guy who's just there to enjoy having a bunch of shiny buttons to press.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 6
03-18-2013, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
This. I'll also add that having a solo-queue only without any checks or balances to make matches based on player skill, captain/ship combinations, and to a lesser degree gear, isn't really gonna work out any better. You'll still get teamed up against players that are used to working as a team and have a fairly well balanced selection of ships at their disposal while your team is 2 Eng/Escorts, 1 Tac/Cruisers (beams) and one lone Sci Guy who's just there to enjoy having a bunch of shiny buttons to press.
I agree with everybody that pug stomping is vital to keeping the queues active. It has really made the community grow.

Leaderboards, or anything interfering with the current system of auto teaming would be bad. I mean who needs tech to make sure that 5v3 matches stop happening. Or that afk'ers can get kicked. ..... Love the queues

On a serious note FvF queues need to disappear. if any fed thinks that they have populations and waiting times issues take a look at the red side.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 03-18-2013 at 08:24 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 7
03-18-2013, 08:22 AM
There needs to be a mechanic. If you go into a premade que, you should expect to face such. And whoever is currently in that queue waiting for another group to join up should enjoy a great benefit or buff.

Lets say its early evening, an Unfound, two Apocalypse & three LAG members have a premade in the special queue. They enjoy 5 min of a really effective buff or benefit, a Nova Core group joins and they beat the existing team. Now they get the limelight until another team manages to terf them out.

If there was a premade queue, there needs to be a reason to do it.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 8
03-18-2013, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
I agree with everybody that pug stomping is vital to keeping the queues active. It has really made the community grow.

Leaderboards, or anything interfering with the current system of auto teaming would be bad. I mean who needs tech to make sure that 5v3 matches stop happening. Or that afk'ers can get kicked. ..... Love the queues

On a serious note FvF queues need to disappear. if any fed thinks that they have populations and waiting times issues take a look at the red side.
I just don't see it mattering in the least if either way it's gonna remain the crapshoot as to whether your team is going to be facing an opponent on roughly an even keel. They implement a useful ranking system (provided they don't toss Private Queues out the window), then this idea would be a lot more appealing.

As far as queue screw ups go, how's this one fit you: Now, not only when you queue up as a team can normal fail to get map from manager occur, you can join the match and be swapped to the opposing team, even if the teams would otherwise be even.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 9
03-18-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
I agree with everybody that pug stomping is vital to keeping the queues active. It has really made the community grow.
Yes, that's certainly what all of us have been advocating in the thread.






Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitaine985 View Post
If there was a premade queue, there needs to be a reason to do it.

I'd like a gigantic lump sum of refined dilithium for the extended duration of well fought matches compared to the 5 min dil farm some PUG arenas can turn out to be.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 03-18-2013 at 09:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,492
# 10
03-18-2013, 09:51 AM
The first step should be that only winning counts toward the various missions. Then when all the PUGs stop queuing, perhaps the Premades will reconsider separate queues.
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