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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,409
# 11
03-18-2013, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
The first step should be that only winning counts toward the various missions. Then when all the PUGs stop queuing, perhaps the Premades will reconsider separate queues.
i can see it now...

"tsi tuesday"

"sad panda saturday"

"turkish thursdays"

-rolls eyes-

not all premades are created equal either, all itll take is a single premade to completely shutout the que on any given day with seperate ques.

then those people who want to play with their friends CANT unless they go against the "evil premades"

ive been in a ton of matches where theres been only TWO people from my fleet and we've been accused of being a premade.. hows that possible?


and to everyone else, lets get something straight here, not all "premades" are actually premades.

i like to pick up a group of people from opvp, but that doesnt make us a premade, if we ran into an actual premade we'd probably get our asses handed to us,

there are

pugs
pugmades
fleetmades
premades.

each group is different.

also, all it takes is one good pvp'r to turn a match in pug vrs pug. ever been in a match where thats happened and have the pug be accused of being a premade? -raises hand- i have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?

Last edited by maicake716; 03-18-2013 at 10:18 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 12
03-18-2013, 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
there are

pugs
pugmades
fleetmades
premades.

each group is different.
Great post, unfortunately lost on most players.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,103
# 13
03-18-2013, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
there are

pugs
pugmades
fleetmades
premades.

each group is different.
Each is different, but three are actually premades.

It's simple.

Did the group form before or during the match...was it...premade before the match?

Tada. Premade.

Are all premades the same? Of course not.

I can't see somebody actually trying to say they're all equal. However, I do not for the life of me understand why anybody would try to say the group that is premade before the match is not a premade group - whether it's an OPvP PUGmade (which is basically ye olde /tradePUG - but still a premade group), a group thrown together by a Fleet to join the queues, or whether it's a group of folks that have built their five toons/ships/etc to function with an Evil synergy.

But regardless, even though that point is valid - it's moot. I suppose my comment was...passive aggressive. Nobody can honestly deny that synergistic Premades that roll the queues PUGstomping aren't...well...uh...insert various words that get the mods wagging their fingers.

But that doesn't mean it would be any more fun for the PUGmades and Fleetmades to have to deal with them than it is for the PUGs. If anything, PUGmades - Fleetmades would take to private matches - scheduling casual PvP fun. The PUGs would go without PvP or find themselves joining in on Fleetmades/PUGmades for that casual fun. The only folks that would be "screwed" - would be those PUGstomping Premades, the AFKers, and those that absolutely refused to get in on some Fleetmade/PUGmade action.

So still, my suggestion in screwing the PUGstompers and AFKers... c'mon, who does want to flip them and the horse they rode in on the bird, eh?

Any system they could come up with - there have been countless systems suggested - have all been pretty easy to point out as something that can be gamed by the playerbase - because those folks that enjoy PUGstomping - those folks that will 10v1 camp a KDF or Fed in Ker'rat - those folks...well...that's the kind of folks they are.

I can't remember the last time I PvP'd on consecutive days. The closest I've come is tooling around in Ker'rat. Arenas/CnH though? Can have a blast winning and losing...then hit two matches back to back against a PUGstomp group - and - forget it. I'll end up doing PvE for a few days and then try again.

I don't know how to explain it - that being fine with losing but wanting to put my headphones through my monitor against a PUGstomp group. But it's there - that difference - and it's pretty easy for that to start to bleed over into all of the premades and not just the PUGstomps.

Bah, this just goes round and round.

Think it's just a case that I'm getting burnt out again. It's usually 6 months on, 2-3 months off, then 6 months on again...lol.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,409
# 14
03-18-2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Each is different, but three are actually premades.

It's simple.

Did the group form before or during the match...was it...premade before the match?

Tada. Premade.

Are all premades the same? Of course not.

.
and its because of that, there are differnt "mades".

a premade in this game is generally seen as a group of people from the same fleet with syncronizing builds to completely roll everything they run into. and are on the same voice chat

that is a premade.

a fleetmade is a group of people from the same fleet but not snycronizing their builds and are probably all on the same voice chat but not always

pugmades are generally formed from random people or friends that arnt in your fleet before a match starts, that does not make them a "premade" though.

and pugs are people who just go into the que alone.

calling everything thats made for a match a "premade" needs to stop, premades are their own thing not a general blanket term for anyone who makes a team before going into a match.


the one thing they can do to the system is actually anything at this point. minor bug fixes, broken promises, flat out neglect has made the pvp area what it is today.

im not saying the players arnt to blame but seriously, crypitc has been promising so much for so long and breaking every one of those promises.... -sighs-
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?

Last edited by maicake716; 03-18-2013 at 11:13 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,924
# 15
03-18-2013, 11:19 AM
pug mades are hardly a premade, like mai said. everyone's build is a cog in a machine, they might have weaknesses made up by their teammates so they can maximize something else. builds that wouldn't work well without the specific kind of support you can get from a premade. it will also specialize in something most of the time, like everyone will have chrono or trans mines for example.

a pug made are a bunch of pugers that form a team before queing up. thats it, its not more complicated then that. all that guaranties is that there proboly wont be any giga noobs, feeders or farmers on your team.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 16
03-18-2013, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Main issue is that there are not enough pre-formed teams to actually maintain a full queue for it, and in fact the PvP ques in general have such a low population overall that separation would do more harm then good at this point.
I dunno man, id rather wait 1 hour in a premade queue, but yeah. even if there would be another premade out there and sees 5 people in the premade queue, they simply avoid it anyway.

Thats why we try chasing em down in the queues and try to get a 5v5 going anyway, force them to play, and improve.

Unforutnately 95% of the time it ends up vs pugs
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,924
# 17
03-18-2013, 01:05 PM
instead of separate ques, they just need a bit of code that tries to match up qued teams together to fight each other. if theres no other teams oh well, just put them against what there is.

the real answer is that people need to L2P, so theres no real difference between pugs and pugmades. thats usually how it is with the kdf, usually. the game stops being a dumbed down facerole once you step away from the pve, but there are resources available to inform and teach.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 18
03-18-2013, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
instead of separate ques, they just need a bit of code that tries to match up qued teams together to fight each other. if theres no other teams oh well, just put them against what there is.

the real answer is that people need to L2P, so theres no real difference between pugs and pugmades. thats usually how it is with the kdf, usually. the game stops being a dumbed down facerole once you step away from the pve, but there are resources available to inform and teach.
Also that, the queue system is as dumb as it can be.

Look at the stupid amount of delays when you queue up for a PvE event with a full 5 man team, there is sometimes a delay of 1 minute before it starts. Reason? No reason.

Same for PvP, when there are 10 people in the queues it takes a few minutes for it to even pop. Just plain stupid. Its not because it has to laod the map or anything, (Even if so, there is something called pre-loading/buffering/caching) I bet its simply because there is a limit on the amount of PvP/PvE instances that can go on at the same time, or the whole system is just bluntly stupid.

And yeah, how many times have we encountered a premade activate the same time, the system is simply not intelligent enough to queue up those 5 man teams against each other. IQ of Queue system = 0.


That whole system needs a rework anyway. Also people with more experience and better gear should be tried to be queued up against each other, experienced players and pugs are constantly missing each other because th queue system is so horrible.

+1.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 83
# 19
03-18-2013, 01:46 PM
Well imho real premades are not that HUGE problem as some may think. Why? Bcs premade group most likely won`t be q`ing 10 times in a row and do pug stomping, u might see them 2 times but thats about it. (there are exepctions for some fleets, but in that case i try to form a team from OPVP and encounter them) In my expirience team from OPVP can easily beat hell out of some premades, and those kinda matches can last like ~30ish minutes or more and be really fun.

I remember some great matches with OPVP team`s that where beating TSI and Turks.
PUG vs PUG can be fun and last longer or less depending on the teams (AFK-er, maybe some less expirienced players or just one team working better then the other) Pugteams can easily beat pugs, fleetmades, and even premades. Pugmade vs pugmade will be pretty much balanced in most cases.

Worst case scenario that can happen in public Q is a premade team that uses all possible cheese and all possible borked stuff to win. (and at the very end of matches they will complain about one borked console that oposite team was using ) Altho, these scenarios are the rarest in Q`s
Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0niusrex:
[*]All Warbird descriptions have been updated, typoes removed, and gramer corrected.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 59
# 20
03-18-2013, 01:57 PM
The que system probably could use a little attention. It should at least look at and balance captain types for pugs.

I was pugging yesterday and kept getting on teams with 5 tacs or 4 tacs and an eng so I changed over to my sci, qued up and got 2 other sci and 2 engies.
RHINO | SAD PANDAS

Last edited by captainf00k; 03-18-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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