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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,307
In discussing chain crits in another thread, something that's become more prevalent with the increase in CrtH since S7...it got me wondering about what's going on behind the curtain with CrtH and how some of it...just doesn't quite parse.

What is CrtH, eh? Some might say it's a mix of a character's skill, luck, and the design of the gear that they're using.

If one looks at skill - well, one can look at Energy/Projectile Weapon Specialization. A character has "trained" (whatever choice of words you want there) to better land critical hits (as well as increasing the critical severity of those critical hits). Makes sense, right?

If one looks at a weapon - well, one can see where that weapon has been crafted to be more likely to land a critical hit. One can picture such a weapon rather easily, no?

But those are actually two different forms of CrtH, no? They're independent of each other. It's not a case that a character needs a certain level of training to benefit from the manner in which the weapon has been crafted. Are they just lumped together to keep things simple for the casual nature of STO?

Well, what about that base 2.5% CrtH that characters get? They get that regardless of whether they've got any weapon training or not. They've got 2.5% CrtH even with 0 Weapon Training, 0 Energy Weapons, 0 Projectile Weapons, 0 Energy Specialization, and 0 Projectile Specialization. So that 2.5% is just...luck?

So...so far...we've got skill, weapon design, and luck involved.

What about the Rom BOFFs? That's going to be skill, eh? But uh, why does their skill stack with each other and the captain's? Are they all standing over the console and firing the weapons together? Are they working in concert that way? STO has it as such. Probably easier just to think of the character's skill as being some form of aura - some air of command - that inspires greater critical chance because of the captain's training (er and luck). The Rom BOFFs also rub off on each other in that sense. Er...k?

So...we've got "captain influence", "BOFF influence", weapon design, and luck involved.

Er, but what about consoles? Just how do the Borg, 0Point, and Tachyo consoles add to CrtH? Are they along the lines of an engineering like influence - they just rub off on the rest of the gear on the ship? They improve design by...osmosis?

So...we've got "captain influence", "BOFF influence", weapon design, "technology influence", and luck involved.

Er, so explain how those things are able to affect all the things they do. I mean, why do some of these things add up the way they do when working with certain things?

For Directed Energy Weapons and Torpedoes - well, it's pretty easy to see where they could all exist. Would they add up the way they do though? Wouldn't they be multiplicative rather than additive?

Then you have things like mines - er - they're not targeted. You've got things like EWP. Why would CrtH based on targeting even be a factor? Oh yeah, completely forgot about Accuracy Overflow...hrmmm.

I mean, have you ever stopped to wonder...

2-3x Rom CrtH BOFFs, 9 Weapon Specialization, Borg, Tachyo, 0Point, CrtH mods, the base 2.5%, Accuracy Overflow, etc, etc, etc

...why on Earth they're all added together in the way they are when they're obviously not the same thing?

If you had 5 apples and 5 oranges, sure - you could say you have 10 fruits - but you wouldn't say that you've got 10 apples or 10 oranges. Is it just a case of trying to keep it simple, not bothering to think to much about it, for the casual way STO is?

Would chain crits be the problem they are now - if - the CrtH mechanics weren't so simplified? Have to figure as time goes on - it's only going to get worse...
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
I.S.S. Arcadia, Stargazer-class Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 2
03-20-2013, 05:42 AM
"Magic".

Actually, it seems simple to me. A critical hit is an especially devastating attack, which could result from many things. Maybe your Romulan BOFF knows where to hit the enemy.

Chain crits are only an issue because of a programming quirk whereby there is only one roll that affects multiple results.
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# 3
03-20-2013, 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
"Magic".

Actually, it seems simple to me. A critical hit is an especially devastating attack, which could result from many things. Maybe your Romulan BOFF knows where to hit the enemy.

Chain crits are only an issue because of a programming quirk whereby there is only one roll that affects multiple results.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,307
# 4
03-20-2013, 06:31 AM
Considering all the other "Magic" in STO... one can easily go with "Magic" as the reasoning behind it.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
I.S.S. Arcadia, Stargazer-class Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 5
03-20-2013, 08:32 AM
With regards to the Superior Romulan Operative trait, there is currently only the Male Rare Romulan BOFF that has this trait.

I'm thinking of converting my Romulan Operatives for an all purple Superior Subterfuge crew on my Fleet Defiant. 18.75% defense is just too good.

I loved the Operative trait, but on the Fleet Defiant, I can only stack 3 Operatives. Since Cryptic says that the current Tactical BOFFs are working as intended, I can have 5 Subterfuge BOFFs.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 6
03-20-2013, 08:43 AM
criticals are not a problem, chain criticals are, but that is simple to fix

another thing i feel its broken is the Acc mod overflow to crth and crtd, making it almost as good as dmg since you hit more times, and better than the crth and crtd since if you dont need that acc, it will become criticals, just great to overloads, but hey, what in this game is not tactical oriented ...

i see critical hits as an attack that hitted a fragile part of the enemy ship

just as that:

Maybe your Romulan BOFF knows where to hit the enemy.
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,307
# 7
03-20-2013, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgresearcher View Post
criticals are not a problem
Say we're parking the non-Elusive/non-Maneuvers target and using [CrtH]x3 weapons while in a Defiant:

Base +2.5%
Borg +0.92%
Tachyokinetc +0.76%
Weapon Specialization +2.0%
Accuracy Overflow +3.57%
Precision +3.0%
Zero-Point +1.8%
[CrtH]x3 +6.0%
3x Rom CovOps +6.0%
APA (99 SAP skill) +5.0%

+31.55% CrtH

Course, we can boost the Accuracy Overflow and SAP skill with DOFFs/abilities/gear.

But my question wasn't about criticals as much as the simplified manner in which they're all being added together. The how...so to speak.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
I.S.S. Arcadia, Stargazer-class Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 246
# 8
03-20-2013, 09:17 AM
I don't really get it what are you trying to prove?
Noone.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
# 9
03-20-2013, 09:26 AM
you can join a lot, maybe too much crth, but that, wihtout crtd wont be that big of a problem
besides, you will spend a lot of weapon mods, console slots and boffs/doffs to get that high crth at the cost of some resistance or healing capability, field generators, platings, other type of doffs or universal consoles, other type of mods on the weapons and such things

another thing is that 5% critical change plus 5% critical chance doesn't mean 10% chance of making a critical hit
it does mean you have 2 chances of 5% each to trigger a critical

you still have 50% of one of those two procs to happen on top of another, so its almost as good to have 15% critical change in one proc, than two procs with 10% each, i think there is a sweet point where crth, number of procs, dps of the attack, and crtd join together
it's not the ship or the build, it's the atitude

Last edited by borgresearcher; 03-20-2013 at 09:33 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,307
# 10
03-20-2013, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorandra View Post
I don't really get it what are you trying to prove?
How is a question trying to prove something?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
I.S.S. Arcadia, Stargazer-class Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
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