Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
# 1 Total Ship Fabrication
03-20-2013, 03:06 PM
I would like to suggest an upgrade to the current creation system. We already have everything that we need to build star ships and ships that are better than the standard ships of the line. I would like to see a more specific creation process due to the cost of the items that can be created at Memory Alpha.

For instance if you are going to create a deflector dish allow the player to determine the value of each area boosted. This can already be done to a certain degree however I am talking about creating exactly what you want. All that would be left is assigning a cost to the item created. The same process could be applied to all items that are place upon ships and to the personal equipment that we carry upon us at all times.

The same would be applied to the manufacturing of ships. Instead of giving an extra slot on a ship that may or may not makes sense as to the placement let us decide how our ships are set up. Since all of the individual aspect of the various ships have already been put in the game its just a matter of being able to put those skins on ships that they were not originally intended. This can be seen in the series with the birth of the Nebula Class ships.

They have Galaxy Class saucer sections with the rest of the ship being radically different in overall design and use. Now granted some of the combinations might seem to be silly or inefficient however I pose the question how do new ship designs make the cut. When the Defiant came in DS9 the ship was unlike anything that we had seen before. This kick started a rush of new ship designs and some very good looking ships. Even the most well known ship in the entire series, the Enterprise received a major make over when they changed to the Sovereign Class.

My point is that many of the players that I have talked to have thought the idea, at worst interesting, at best a great idea. I have proposed this on the forums a few times in a thread that I cant seem to find. Here is what I propose the system to look like, all cost are in dilithium:


Base ship class (Carrier, Cruiser, Destroyer, Escort or Science): 50,000
This would give one slot of each of the following:
Weapon (fore and aft)
Defector
Engine
Shield
Weapons
Each additional weapon slot: 1,000
Ability to add cannons: 5,000
Special weapons (from a specific ship i.e. phaser lotus from the chimera): 25,000 each.
Engineering, Science and Tactical slots: 5,000 each (Although this seems high it would keep people from creating ships with 5 slots in each)
Device Slots: 1,000
Abilities: Non ship specific abilities i.e. +5 bonus power to subsystems, 5,000
Ship specific abilities i.e. saucer separation or phaser lance 15,000
Base Hull: 1/1, if you want 50,000 hull it will cost you 50,000.
Shield Modifier: 100 per .01, if you want a shield modifier of 1 it will cost 10,000
Turn Rate: 1000/1 if you want a turn of 15 then you will be paying 15000
Bridge Officers: 5000 each and 1500 per rank

I am aware that there are some things that I have probably left out but this gives a rough idea of what I am talking about. The prices may seem high but they would be in accordance with the current creation system. This would also keep uber ships from being too common costing more than 500k Dil on average. This is not too say that they will not be out there and as time goes on they will be more common as with everything

A similar system would be in place for the individual consoles and non consumable items. For instance here?s an example of a deflector and shield arrays build:

Deflector Array Type: Positron, Neutrino ect: 5000
Each additional modifier beyond base: 2000 to a maximum of 3

Shield Array Type: Covariant, Regenerative ect: 5000
Each additional modifier beyond the base: 2000 to a maximum of 3


This individualization of the various ships and pieces would indeed be a much more preferable method that what is currently in place, at least from what little reactions that I have been able to get via short term discussions. I bring this to everyone else to get the general reactions to this suggestion. Please keep in mind this is just an example of prices and not set in stone.

Although i realize that haters are gonna hate and that you will never make them happy I am looking for some constructive criticism about truly make our own ships to our specs.

Last edited by bladepriest; 03-20-2013 at 03:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,665
# 2
03-20-2013, 03:14 PM
This would be literally pay to win.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
# 3
03-20-2013, 03:18 PM
true even if it was an upgrade that would have to be purchased through the C-store.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 247
# 4
03-20-2013, 03:31 PM
not sure if that's true. UWO (Uncharted waters online) Does the same and it's not pay to win. I think it would be interesting... and maybe give engs something to actually do, sense they should have a Leg up with the R & D facilities being called Starfleet Corps of Engineers (SCE)

But I can easily see how smart players, rich players, and pay players could easily run past free.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 108
# 5
03-20-2013, 04:34 PM
The suggested prices are insanely high. I mean, simply re-creating the lowest tier of ships would be close to a hundred thousand dil!

I realize we don't want people making ships with like 4 commanders and able to equip all the best gear and have the highest hull rating in the game, but then just set some hard limits instead of pricing these things at a level only a small number of players can achieve in a decent time frame.

For instance, as far as bridge officers go, we could have a 11-power space limit, and say you can't have more than 1 Commander slot. At the most, that gives you space for 1 LT-commander and 2 Lieutenants (or 2 lt commanders and an ensign), which is just above par for most ship configurations and would make this option attractive to min-maxers without being too overpowered. And that's for a 4-BoFF setup, never mind that many ships have 5-boff setups. Perhaps charge extra for making slots "universal".

Also, set a max Shield/turn rate/Hull rating for each tier of ship. It can be a little above what we have currently, but it shouldn't be so much that a custom escort can take more damage than a stock cruiser.

I did some math using your numbers, and, okay, assuming someone earns 8K dil a day every day, they could afford to recreate a non-fleet, Vice Admiral tier science vessel after just under a month. So maybe your numbers aren't entirely unreasonable, but if someone wants to really trick it out and go above and beyond (or worse, they're a casual player that nets a max of ~3k a day), we're talking a ridiculous amount of time and effort. And nevermind that such a player won't be able to spend dil on anything else while they save up: Fleet projects, Reputation projects, Doffs, crafting materials, etc.

I dunno, I feel the game is grindy enough as it is, and the thought of paying over 200K dil for a ship of my own design turns me off enough to not want to bother. Not that the idea doesn't have merit, but I feel that new features should be more inclusive, rather than "grind or gtfo", like New Romulus, which I went to once and never looked back.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,202
# 6
03-20-2013, 04:43 PM
This is kit-bashing taken to new extremes!

To maintain balance, any "upgrade" will need to have a corresponding "downgrade." For example, if turn rate were increased, then something else would have to be decreased, like hull points, impulse speed, etc. Basically every option should have a trade-off to counter-balance it.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 7
03-20-2013, 06:03 PM
Yeah, this really isn't going to work. If you wanted to do a standard T5 cruiser it would be 201,500 dil (rather than the current 120,000), and at that point there is no way anyone isn't going to drop an extra 13k to boost the turn rate from 7 to 20, and 10k to boost the shield modifier from 1.0 to 2.0, and for that matter 5k so it can run cannons (final cost: 229,500).

Now, if you really wanted to do something like this what might work is a points system, kind of like the one in the latest Call of Duty. The idea is that you get various options that you can choose to pick, and you can pick any combination you want, but the total number of options is limited. That could potentially allow for this kind of customization without creating excessive prices or insanely powerful ships. But doing this would make it much harder for Cryptic to sell new ships, and would require an enormous amount of programming work, so I can't imagine it happening.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,246
# 8
03-20-2013, 11:35 PM
In the January 'Ask Cryptic' Dan mentioned that a long term goal was to allow the creation of custom ships; so who knows? It might be happening.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,557
# 9
03-20-2013, 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
In the January 'Ask Cryptic' Dan mentioned that a long term goal was to allow the creation of custom ships; so who knows? It might be happening.
DStahl has been mentioning alot of things in the past... Very little of it has ever come true.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports - I don't like Gekos
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
# 10
03-20-2013, 11:54 PM
I did not mean it to come across that it would indeed be this expensive. This is meant to give an idea of what could be done. Focusing only on how much it would cost should not be the sole aspect of saying yes or no to the idea. I am just wondering if people are interested in this type of setup in order to truly customize their ships.

As far as the counter balancing is concerned that would be more in the cost than what you can actually fit in. I would never expect this to be cheap by any means but it should only be limited by what the player can think of. I was looking at a ship today on the Klingon side and for the life of me I can't remember which one, and it cost 120k for it and it didn't even have what I wanted on it.

Look at it like this how many thousands of DIL are people having to spend on their fleet star bases just to get to a level so that they can spend up to $25 just to get a ship that fits most of their requirements? Then in 6 months, if that long another series of ships comes out and they are bigger and better than everything before. We have seen this before with every game out there and is a necessary evil of the industry and it will never go away. Now why not pay a little (or maybe a lot) more for a ship that fits you perfectly? This way no one can complain about the latest and greatest being "glass cannons" or some other less that pleasant name.

As players we will be putting in a great deal of time into this game only to be partially satisfied with what someone else thinks we want. Why not put into a game a lot of time to get what we actually want out of it? Ok so it cost a little more, big deal. In the long run you will be spending a lot less on upgrades than what you would be spending the DIL on something worthwhile.

For example just look at the ships when the game first came out. I wasn't playing then but I would be willing to bet vital parts of my anatomy that the ships then were not as powerful as the ones are now. Just look at the Vesta class and tell me about being over powered and that's a science ship.

One thing I am not trying to do is copy any particular game so that STO is more like game X or even game Y. Having played the game for a while now and actually reading the content on the missions has convinced me that the players and some of the designers know very little about what it means to call a game Star Trek. This is an age old argument that I don't wish to rehash by any means but I only bring it up because it backs up the fact that we as players have been put in a almost freelancer style play set up.
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