Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
Alright, I know, I know the Excelsior isn't meant for Engineers, but I bought it way back before I realized that, and have been trying to find a way to make it work. Plus I am starting to like having that En engineer slot.

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...attletank_3134

I have been able to scrape a few friends together for some 3 on three matches, and I haven't really done any organized ones, and honestly I don't really want to until I get a solid build.

*edit* I will put the description of the build here, as I don't think many will actually click the description tab on the planner

This build requires 2 Purple Conn officer duty officers to reduce the cool down of tactical team to the global 15 seconds, eliminating the need for two copies of Tactical Team.

It also requires 3 (preferably purple) Damage Control Engineers to give the maximum possible chance of Emergency Powers cool down reduction.

The idea behind this is to keep Emergency Power to Shields 3 up as much as possible, but in case the doff doesn't trigger, you have a backup copy of Emergency Power to Shields 1 to fall back on.

Setting power levels to (base) 85 Weapon, 75 Shield (divide the rest how you like) combined with Emergency Powers, will have a constant 125 Weapon and shield power nearly 100% of the time.

Running EPtS3 at 125 power combined with Rotate Shield Frequency will put you at (over actually) the Shield Damage Reduction cap of 75%. 59-64% roughly when Rotate Shield Frequency is on cool down.

All in all, it seems to hold up very well. I can shrug off any alpha so far, and eventually get ignored, which I am fine with. It allows me to more focus on keeping others alive.

I do have a couple of questions though. My shields do rarely ever go down. I am debating dropping RSP for another Aux2SIF 1, getting some Aux Batteries and be able to do a little bit more healing, but Aux1 isn't really that impressive. Would it be reasonable you think?


The other issue I have is of course damage capability. I am not a huge fan of plasma as a rule, but the reduced drain combines with the disruptor proc seemed impressive. Should I go back to phasers, or Antiprotons? Someone suggested Phased Tets once for shield stripping, but something with a disruptor proc seems more helpful overall. Should I swap Spread for APO, or even APB? or maybe drop BFAW for one of those? I know beta would help the team a bit, but I don't really have the room to squeeze in Attack patterns skill, it only lasts for 5 seconds, and it can be cleared by Tac Team (yes/no?)

It seems especially vulnerable to SNB to me, but then again what isn't?

Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated. Any negative feedback will merely be appreciated

Last edited by cha0s1428; 03-21-2013 at 06:23 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 783
# 2
03-21-2013, 08:39 AM
Beams are meh.

And Plasma really needs the Embassy consoles to be worth something since a lot of people are still using MACO shields.

The only Excelsior build I'd recommend right meow would be one with all Cannons/Turrets and DEM. Using Plasma with the Embassy consoles might actually make that a decent DPS boat.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 98
# 3
03-21-2013, 08:42 AM
Dual copies of A2SIF isn't necessary since it's a 15 sec cd anyway.

I'm not really an authority on anything, but other than that with no Emitter Arrays and no SIF generators and low aux I'm curious how well your healing will be against a full team focus fire. If you're going for more of a healing build I would say just run dual copies of EP2S1 and use that lt comm slot for extend shields 2 and run dual extends or maybe replace one extends for an ET2 or 3...one thing seems certain, if you're running 3 purple doffs to reduce em powers having dual copies of both ep2s and ep2w seems like a waste.

Personally I wouldn't get rid of the RSP, if you're doing a good job healing eventually the other team will try to pressure you or take you out if you appear soft. It's nice ot have that extra insurance especially if you notice they burn an SNB on you, that's a good get out of jail free card.
24 Hours a day, 365 days a week.

Last edited by dummyname; 03-21-2013 at 08:51 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 79
# 4
03-21-2013, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dummyname View Post
Dual copies of A2SIF isn't necessary since it's a 15 sec cd anyway.
everyone knows it has a 15 sec CD

not everyone knows it has 8 sec Global CD

i only found this out recently by accident
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
# 5
03-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeagolsneaky View Post
everyone knows it has a 15 sec CD

not everyone knows it has 8 sec Global CD

i only found this out recently by accident
Oh the good old excelsior. It brings back memories of when Mel and I would run cannon boats. Of course, we were tacs. Times were simpler then.

Eng though.. tough. The a2sif GCD was like that even when I was active. Personally, an eng makes a good match for a Thorian carrier. That was the combo I used and it rocked. Don't expect to kill much.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 98
# 6
03-21-2013, 10:45 PM
I indeed was not aware of this. I thought I once had dual A2SIF when I first started out and thought they came off cooldown same time. Maybe it was another skill.
24 Hours a day, 365 days a week.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 200
# 7
03-22-2013, 12:09 AM
IIRC, the change was relatively recent. AtSIF's single-copy cooldown remained at 15s, but the GCD for aux skills when it activated was reduced to 10s. (Mind you, not 8s.) Makes those damage control engineers a viable option for converting AtSIFs into ad-hoc HEs with quicker cooldowns.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,254
# 8
03-22-2013, 12:26 AM
um, stupid observation:

Maybe trade the second EPTW slot for a heal? Like ET1 maybe? you're GOING to take hits in this boat, you might want to have some ability to recover.

Second bit being, you already have some crowd-control with the Torpedo spread, you need at least ONE power that provides some concentrated DAMAGE. Recommend swapping FAW for Beam Overload. (iirc, it's 2 in the Lt. slot)

So's you can apply SOME spike-briefly.

Mk1 Shield gennies? why not spend some DIl. and get at LEAST mk11?

a single Mk12 Neut might be fine-if your KDF opponents are hitting you with blue tickle-rays, but you MAY find your survival (and thus, ability to hurt things) is improved by dropping one of the Lobi/rep consoles for some actual armor that resists kinetic damage, since you're short on hull-heals from the bridge officer layout, and it takes a long time for MW to pop when you're in a 5x5 furball and the other side has SOME kind of coordination (forget Premades, a good PUG on the KDF side can be rather more effective against a build like this.)

You have TSS (a good power), Extends (good for team power), and a single copy of Hazards...on a Plasma boat.

I'm not sure that's the best choice you could make there, it kind of hinges on you running only into Pugs who haven't been doing the Romulan Rep heavily-which pugs are getting rarer-I see a LOT more Plasma this year than I've seen before, and people feel comfortable using it because...they have the Romulan Rep consoles.

Makes Hazards a bit more necessary than they used to be in PvP.

aux2SI is good, but the best Engineering 'hold'/de-buff power is EWP3, which you can train your Boffs in if you're an Engineer and have the right skills selected in your skill-tree. EWP makes 'scorts have to burn their movement buffs and use up their Hazards if they run into it-the first to move out of it, the second to clear the damage it's doing to them, which makes them a bit more vulnerable to YOUR plasma weapons procs-see how it works together there? Also works for getting those annoying Danu-I mean, Siphon drones off your ass (or other fighter-spam, fighters don't last long in a an EWP cloud...)

Just a few thoughts, no doubt someone who's better with Cruisers than I am will have serious disagreement with my evaluation.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.

Last edited by patrickngo; 03-22-2013 at 12:30 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 9
03-22-2013, 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
um, stupid observation:

Maybe trade the second EPTW slot for a heal? Like ET1 maybe? you're GOING to take hits in this boat, you might want to have some ability to recover.

Second bit being, you already have some crowd-control with the Torpedo spread, you need at least ONE power that provides some concentrated DAMAGE. Recommend swapping FAW for Beam Overload. (iirc, it's 2 in the Lt. slot)

So's you can apply SOME spike-briefly.

Mk1 Shield gennies? why not spend some DIl. and get at LEAST mk11?

a single Mk12 Neut might be fine-if your KDF opponents are hitting you with blue tickle-rays, but you MAY find your survival (and thus, ability to hurt things) is improved by dropping one of the Lobi/rep consoles for some actual armor that resists kinetic damage, since you're short on hull-heals from the bridge officer layout, and it takes a long time for MW to pop when you're in a 5x5 furball and the other side has SOME kind of coordination (forget Premades, a good PUG on the KDF side can be rather more effective against a build like this.)

You have TSS (a good power), Extends (good for team power), and a single copy of Hazards...on a Plasma boat.

I'm not sure that's the best choice you could make there, it kind of hinges on you running only into Pugs who haven't been doing the Romulan Rep heavily-which pugs are getting rarer-I see a LOT more Plasma this year than I've seen before, and people feel comfortable using it because...they have the Romulan Rep consoles.

Makes Hazards a bit more necessary than they used to be in PvP.

aux2SI is good, but the best Engineering 'hold'/de-buff power is EWP3, which you can train your Boffs in if you're an Engineer and have the right skills selected in your skill-tree. EWP makes 'scorts have to burn their movement buffs and use up their Hazards if they run into it-the first to move out of it, the second to clear the damage it's doing to them, which makes them a bit more vulnerable to YOUR plasma weapons procs-see how it works together there? Also works for getting those annoying Danu-I mean, Siphon drones off your ass (or other fighter-spam, fighters don't last long in a an EWP cloud...)

Just a few thoughts, no doubt someone who's better with Cruisers than I am will have serious disagreement with my evaluation.

Thanks for the feedback. This is what I was looking for.

First off, the Mk1 field gens were clearly an oversight. I was in the process of trying to find the Embassy consoles in the list but had no such luck, so I would like point out that those can be swapped for plasma infusers.

As I said, I am a bit reserved on the plasmas, but running some numbers on them makes me want to give them a go.

Having the 2 set bonus from rommie stuff (can drop the Zero point energy conduit for plasma torp) gives 7.6% plasma damage. 2 plasma infusers each adding 9.6% adds up to 26.8 (provided the stacking math works like I hope it does), which is very nearly a 5th Tac console equivalent. Everyone (at least I would think) runs a shield with some kind of damage reduction. The most prevalent would 20% from Maco and Omega. the combined 26.8 from everything I would have would offset that damage reduction and go over it a 6.8%. Add in the burn and disruptor proc (not to be relied upon, of course) and its a fair bit amount of extra damage. Coupled with the fact of the power drain on those beams is minimal.

Now, assuming everyone runs with all their tac consoles in their primary weapon of choice (as in not torps and mines), most other weapons cannot draw on an additional (in this case 26.8%) damage to offset shield reduction outside of abilities. The only other one I can think of the Jemmy set, which is a bit higher %, but that is quite the investment, and another build entirely. I am just trying to find a valid plasma build at the moment.

On paper, It would seem to be quite effective. I haven't tested this build with a full set of Experimental beams yet, which is my reason for the post.

I agree with much of what you say. I am a bit hesitant to give Beam overload a try on these beams without Acc bonus (which is my MAIN reservation on these things) because BO seems to miss every time even with Accx3. Though with the lack of power drain on the beams, it might be worth trying.

I have never had much luck with EWP. Yes, I agree 100% with the reasoning to use it, I just can't ever seem to bring myself to give up a Boff station for something that is only going to force someone to burn an ability they were most likely using in the first place, being APO (most builds I see people run 2 copies of it). All human boffs offset the burn mostly anyway. The plasma weapons aren't so much there for the plasma proc, but rather the lesser power drain on weapons.

I also don't see what you mean about only having one copy of HE on a plasma boat.

Yes, I suppose I could drop the second copy of EP2W for ET. That does cut into Tac Team though, but yeah, not prime target all the time, so doable, thank you.

To the point someone made about purple doffs and running 2 copies of Emergency powers being a waste, I disagree. The whole point is to have EPtS3 up almost 100% relying on those doffs. The second copy of of EPtS1 is only there as a back up in case the doffs don't trigger, I won't be completely screwed for 15 seconds. its not 100% chance the doffs will trigger.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 61
# 10
03-22-2013, 04:58 PM
Since the build is in pvp section I would recommend to try also the following:

1. Replace the torpedo fore and aft with 2 beams.
2. Lt. Com. Tac APD2
3. Try Omega 2 piece Deflector and Eng. (Benefit tetryon glider + the bonus to targeting system)
4. Try also Ad. Maco Shields or Fleet Elite Resilient shields.
5. If you go full beam drop the tachyokinetic console for another armor console.

I believe that the strength of a cruiser is the broadside. Of course every build is unique to the play style.

As for using embassy consoles, I do not believe that 1 console will make a big difference.

Changing to phasers again, Fleet advanced [acc]x2 mixed with some fleet elite [acc]x2 for the shield heal proc is again a risk. More and more people use Elite fleet shields.
Fed Sci: Tethys U.S.S. Chronos Aionios, U.S.S. Denomon Gnosis {Fleet: HSF}
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
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