Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
After playing the beta I realized that Cryptic CAN do good ground combat, contrary to what CO & STO have been like. So with that I ask:

Can Star Trek Online get Neverwinter's ground combat?

STO:
  • Slow, qued attacks & abilities with long animations that feel detached
  • unresponsive user input
  • delayed attacks & skills
  • dodge is unresponsive & sometimes happens after my character takes the time to play a hit animation.
  • extremely slow character movement acceleration
  • delayed/unresponsive animations. (character often slides standing up rather than dodging)
  • binary dead/not-dead combat)
  • Melee combat is detached, slow & has almost zero feedback. half the time enemies walk by when I use a melee attack, & sometimes play a hit animation long after I attack, if at all.
  • tacked-on shooter mode that feels superfluous.

Neverwinter:
  • Fast attacks & abilities
  • Responsive user input
  • Skills & abilities happen when I press the button
  • Dodge interrupts what I'm doing & just happens
  • movement is very responsive & I feel I have great control over my character
  • Immediate animation that describes exactly what I'm doing & want to do.
  • shooter mode is directly a major part of combat with ranged moves that feel precise but versatile & melee moves that happen when I press the button & feel like they really hit hard.
  • Hitting an enemy feels solid. Their animations play at the exact moment of impact & always play.


Is there ANY plan to use this new combat system? it's GREAT. & STO's is, sorry to say, one of the worst MMO ground combat out there..
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 88
# 2
03-25-2013, 08:23 PM
I played that Beta as well, where did you find responsive actions?

I had all the same issues I do with STO.

Push a Button, 3 seconds later it happens.

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,406
# 3
03-25-2013, 08:29 PM
I'm not all that crazy about NW's lack of being able to ZOOM-IN on my Toon while fighting...
(or even, NOT being able to RUN/MOVE, while using my 'powers/weapons')

It makes the battles feel less personal to me.

I hope those never come to STO ground play.
DaveyNY - STO Forum Minion since February - 2009
................Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just Minions who have Played the Game for the last 5.0 years.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
# 4
03-25-2013, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krell83sto View Post
I had all the same issues I do with STO.
I don't know how that could be even mildly true. I had none. I guess if you have a bad internet connection or a slow machine, yes.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,297
# 5
03-25-2013, 10:05 PM
I'm in the same boat, NW's combat IS sto's shooter mode, and even then it still feels like you're better off using tab targeting (which NW won't let you do). All the problems you listed for STO's ground combat is some of the list for why i stopped playing NW. And saying it's the machine or connection just isn't a good explanation.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
# 6
03-25-2013, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithshadow13 View Post
I'm in the same boat, NW's combat IS sto's shooter mode, and even then it still feels like you're better off using tab targeting (which NW won't let you do). All the problems you listed for STO's ground combat is some of the list for why i stopped playing NW. And saying it's the machine or connection just isn't a good explanation.
Saying it's the same isn't a good explanation either since experience doesn't bear that out. It's just not factual.

The collision & timing is way better. when the sword hit the, they reacted, period. Maybe it's just with the Heavy weapons & Rouge Character, but the reactions are way better in NW.

If you stopped playing NW, have you stopped playing STO?

Last edited by liquin; 03-25-2013 at 11:24 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 7
03-26-2013, 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquin View Post
I don't know how that could be even mildly true. I had none. I guess if you have a bad internet connection or a slow machine, yes.
Or (and here's just a crazy thought) you're just one of the people not being affected by the issue. Just because it's not happening to you doesn't remotely mean the issue doesn't exist, nor does it in any way invalidate the experience of others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquin View Post
Saying it's the same isn't a good explanation either since experience doesn't bear that out. It's just not factual.

The collision & timing is way better. when the sword hit the, they reacted, period. Maybe it's just with the Heavy weapons & Rouge Character, but the reactions are way better in NW.

If you stopped playing NW, have you stopped playing STO?
And it's pretty clear you're missing the crux of the issue: input desynching from what happens in-game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
# 8
03-26-2013, 07:51 AM
It is better, but still no WoW-control-responsivness.

For example I don't get a "meh" sound when something fails to activate. I press the stun and then watch 2 seconds, before I notice it never actually happened. Also the stun is not instant, it's still queued and it happens at the end of the animation, I can barely interrupt an AoE attack. I can not hear on the sounds which abilities I did, everything needs to have distinct sound.

Also my character still gets displaced at various actions and interacts. To have complete feeling of control, you character should never be displaced, and always be rooted to the ground and where you walk.

That was on top of my head, I am sure there is more if you really analyze it.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,806
# 9
03-26-2013, 08:01 AM
this is why the mmorpg game model keeps shambling forward.
roll of dice to hit is a system that is much more tolerant of abysmal connections and weak high latency servers than other systems.

ground animations in sto being noticeably more clunky than even other mmo's is likely been an issue over looked due to the main draw being the space combat.

that melee will actually root your character for a second encapsulates this nicely.
Cryptic.
Figure out and address the players path of least resistance to reward. this one thing is THE consistent factor undermining all your efforts. be that crafting, raids or starbase projects.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 10
03-26-2013, 02:58 PM
Better melee?. Sure, what's next? Ogres and Helfs?
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
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