Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 72
# 171
03-28-2013, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
You didn't post this on your OP , but your stoacademy profile has you as a Tac .

Most Tac's don't fly cruisers .

Engineers do , and they don't have an innate attack pattern to boost their damage , thus your claim that "in fact this sort of damage is achievable with beams" does not address the concern of many who do fly cruisers , but not as Tac's .

That's all I can say , as my knowledge of parsers is minimal , so I'm not sure what else could have been done to boost your damage .

But I will say this , I don't think in PVP (against faster moving foes) you would have gotten that high of a hit score .
Thanks for the quote link.
I thought I took the Blue Pill.......
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 172
03-28-2013, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
You didn't post this on your OP , but your stoacademy profile has you as a Tac .

Most Tac's don't fly cruisers .

Engineers do , and they don't have an innate attack pattern to boost their damage , thus your claim that "in fact this sort of damage is achievable with beams" does not address the concern of many who do fly cruisers , but not as Tac's .

That's all I can say , as my knowledge of parsers is minimal , so I'm not sure what else could have been done to boost your damage .

But I will say this , I don't think in PVP (against faster moving foes) you would have gotten that high of a hit score .
I have three "main" characters, an Eng, a Tac and a Sci. All of them use beams and all of them break 7k DPS easily. My Tac does 11k in his Regent or Fleet Excelsior. My Eng does 8k in his Fleet Excelisor, and my Sci does 8k in her Vesta.

I am in Vex's fleet and we constantly push ourselves to see who can do the most damage with our various builds, or who can be the most tanky, or who has the best uniform configuration. It's a friendly competition.

So yes, "this sort of damage is obtainable by ANYONE using beams" 7k+. Yes. Doable.
Formerly known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012

If the KDF can get a Fleet D7 (That can be upgraded to a T5-U), the Feds should have a Fleet Exeter.

Last edited by jonathanlonehawk; 03-30-2013 at 12:41 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 20
# 173
03-28-2013, 12:05 PM
I wish I could see the looks on all your faces when you see the next video Vexashen posts.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 474
# 174
03-28-2013, 12:29 PM
I'd like to ask how much dps would a high end build for a escort would do compared to this? if it near twice as much there is still a problem..

Also it has been noted these 10k+ cruiser builds have been tact captains while

Engineer captain's with great purple gear etc can reach around 7k according to these players but most of us can't get that kind of gear very easily at all, since doffs are expensive or very random .

I would like to compare top class dps with tact escorts, sci escort, engineer escort.
Then tact cruiser, sci cruiser, engineer cruiser.
Then science ships.

Last edited by cryptkeeper0; 03-28-2013 at 12:32 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,193
# 175
03-28-2013, 01:26 PM
I posted a thread a little while back about my eng cruiser's damage. I have tweaked the D'kora up to about 10k in ISE/HOSE, 8-9 in CSE/KASE

Of course its also a full threat control tank as well, so it serves a purpose to any group.

I've been using a newer plug in lately for a parser, using the base damage value instead of actual. You'll score lower in CSE against endless unshielded targets, but way higher in HOSE then before. It seems to be more useful as damage values are more consistent and less based on debuffs or the shields you are shooting at, so the variance between bad and good groups for single players is a lot less.


http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=580941

People need to start learning how to play instead of finding excuses why everyone else's numbers aren't really real.
Delirium Tremens
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 176
03-28-2013, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
I'd like to ask how much dps would a high end build for a escort would do compared to this? if it near twice as much there is still a problem..

Also it has been noted these 10k+ cruiser builds have been tact captains while

Engineer captain's with great purple gear etc can reach around 7k according to these players but most of us can't get that kind of gear very easily at all, since doffs are expensive or very random .

I would like to compare top class dps with tact escorts, sci escort, engineer escort.
Then tact cruiser, sci cruiser, engineer cruiser.
Then science ships.
The answer, for me at least, is apples and oranges.

I regularly out-damage other tacs in escorts over time with my cruiser builds. Whereas I cannot ever match my alpha in my Kumari with my cruisers. (I've hit 190k in one shot with the cannon overload, and popped 3 people in one shot in PvP with it, granted that was a holy crap moment). The ship types are really that different.

Escorts and cannons are all about burst damage. Mainly because of the arcs and getting on target, and quite frankly that's what they're intended to do.

Cruisers and beams are about sustained damage (otherwise known as pressure damage on these forums). And will, if specced well enough, be viable in PvP.

Healing IS too powerful (especially passive healing) and there is almost no reason to run a healing build in PvP, let alone PvE (I don't even have a science BOff on my Kumari or my Regent). In PvP Burst damage is basically king. Whereas in PvE sustained damage is, and thus, beams.

Vex has posted and will continually post some of our FRAPS to show what can be done with these ships. But, of course, people will take what we say with skepticism. Which is fine, so long as it doesn't get nasty (trolling and name-calling) because that's why we did it. To prove it can be done.

So don't moan when you see that cruiser warp into your PUG, it just might be one of us...
Formerly known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012

If the KDF can get a Fleet D7 (That can be upgraded to a T5-U), the Feds should have a Fleet Exeter.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 474
# 177
03-28-2013, 03:42 PM
ok i disagree on sustained damage being king in pve, burst is so good in stf's that it does make healing pointless and tanking and especially holds etc. Sure in pugs holds can be useful, but a well organized escort team stomps stfs even the elites with all the optional objectives really quick. That's not to say a full group of good cruiser pilots couldn't, (becuase i have done this before even in hive elite) they just can't do it as fast or efficiently

But yes passive healing is a bit strong in pve but i think that has to do with the fact ships have a basis towards damage vs hp, so they have to lower the amount of sustained damage mobs make, and instead make it bursty... Which imo is serious flaw in the pve design.

My skepticism isn't can you do it, its more that I don't think these or any other higher dps then average cruiser builds, prove that there is nothing wrong with the way pve and pvp seem to favor escorts.

Its fairly obvious issue in the game play and balance design of the game. It may however not be as bad as others such as myself have thought of it. That is why i need a lot of data from various different high end escort pilots etc..
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 178
03-28-2013, 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
I'd like to ask how much dps would a high end build for a escort would do compared to this? if it near twice as much there is still a problem
I know escorts who pull consistent 10-13k dps. and mind you they are not in a group full of tacs, these are simple pug numbers (I know one beat the 18k dps mark, tho that is pretty much with the bestest gear ever out there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
ok i disagree on sustained damage being king in pve, burst is so good in stf's that it does make healing pointless
what the hell heals in stfs? yeah stuff has the base heals, but the most I have seen is 3% up, and that is nothing. sustained dps in STFs is great. however sustained dps is just crap in every other PVE event, as stuff does not live long enough to make up for the burst (like in SB24 or gorn minefield, where you must kill everything as fast as possible, and they have low health, so with escorts it is one volley, with beams it is two)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 79
# 179
03-28-2013, 04:01 PM
I am one of the Founders of Vex's, Protector's, Oridjerra's and Bottle's fleet. I really can't add too much to the conversation other than because of the collective builds of these four individual's (plus a couple others) our fleet has benefitted immeasurably. Some of you may decry the relevance of cruisers, the galaxy the most, but without these players doing experiments like this our fleet members would still be struggling to get to the 2k DPS mark in ISE for instance (thats an exageration, but you get the point). Also I don't know if we'd be effective in PvP at all.

I guess what I took away from these 18 pages (yes I read every post) is that no matter what, the Naysayers will say Nay even when the proof is right there (video, Vex offering to run STF's with you so you can see for yourself, complete posting of the build in question, ect.). I do know one thing, though, when we have our weekly fleet PvP night I always hate to see Vex on the other team because I know that no matter what he brings, it will be a monster build.....LOL

From one of the Founders of TOS Veterans, thanks for taking the time to do stuff like this Vex (and the other's in our fleet I mentioned), I feel it has made us better if not the community at large

Just my opinion, of course...Oh yeah, I happen to be an Engineer who flys a cruiser and I feel I do it better because of people like Vex, Protector, Oridjerra, Bottle and Cutter (another Founder of TOS Vets whom I don't remember seeing post in here...) taking the time to do things like this

Qapla'!
Real Join Date: Feb 2010
Co-founder: TOS Veterans and TOS Qan Mang
tosfleet.com

Illigitimi Non Carborundum

Last edited by elric071; 03-28-2013 at 04:11 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
# 180
03-28-2013, 08:11 PM
Ok Elric, I will post a reply, since you noticed my conspicuous absence.

I too have read this entire post, and have over the years seen the Cryptic hate concerning game mechanics and how badly cruisers have been nerfed, or how horrible the galaxy is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, when there are players who can play the game and do things contrary to this collective opinion, and provide video and anecdotal evidence that demonstrates that things can be done in certain ships that many people jump on because it doesn't fit their personal agendas regarding how they think Cryptic should run their business, I would think it might be time for some to re-evaluate how strongly they may be expressing said opinions.

And to the nay-sayers ... to just discount what the OP has posted without even trying to check it out is kinda ridiculous. Take him up on his offer to come along on one of our STF runs.

We always have fun.

And remember, no one is saying the Galaxy is a fantastic ship. It is not an easy thing to get damage out of it with white mk X gear and turning that beast with a common mk x engine is painful. That some can do this is the whole point to all of this. So that people can give themselves a challenge and try something new.

And Vex, thanks for all of this, you make this game fun on a regular ongoing basis!

Cutter@darthjef

Co-founder, TOS Veterans and Qan Mang

tosfleet.com

Last edited by darthjef; 03-28-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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