Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 61
03-24-2013, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
You can hull tank the majority of people in Ker'rat in a BoP...
...not sure I'd want to rely on anything from Ker'rat as an example.

It's where bad players go to feel better about themselves because there's no trouble finding worse players...

/cough

...er, yeah, it's usually where you'll find me.
Ker'rat is more a mixed bag of players. There are good players and not-so-good players, and then there are Kirks flying cruisers using FAW and Kirking away.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,590
# 62
03-24-2013, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Good point. Still, I don't think the cruisers could win, even if the escorts made a mistake.
Oh, I never said the cruisers would win. Just stale-mate. The only group there that could possibly kill the escorts are the sci, but then the escorts would know that and focus the sci down first XD. Which would leave the escorts and cruisers to pointlessly plug away at each other.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 102
# 63
03-24-2013, 05:25 PM
Umm... I'm a little scared stepping into this furball, but here I go...

I see a lot of talk about PvP here, so I thought I'd bring in the perspective of someone who plays PvE almost exclusively here.
I actually kinda' agree with the thread's motion here, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with all of the original poster's proposed fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
Their weapons are fine.

As long as Tactical Team remains by far the best engineering skill in the game, nothing will change.

The issuse isn't the cannon. It's the glass.
From a PvE standpoint, this appears to me to be the core of the problem. My main is a tactical officer, and, barring my last two months flying an Ambassador, I've been a pretty steady escort captain.
Yes, having attack patterns boost the damage of science powers is a problem for science captains, but the core problem is when even an idiot like me can use a Patrol Escort to tank-- not kill, but tank-- a cube in KAS:E for a almost two full minutes. A more competent escort jock than I was at the time would have been able to waste that ship in less time, no tanking or heal-support required.

At least as far as PvE is concerned, I think tsurutafan has hit the nail on the head-- "the issue isn't the cannon. It's the glass."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,925
# 64
03-24-2013, 05:34 PM
The main problem is that a lot of people should learn to play their classes and ships properly, instead of blaming people who play well.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 65
03-24-2013, 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
The main problem is that a lot of people should learn to play their classes and ships properly, instead of blaming people who play well.
The main problem is people who don't admit that there is a problem, and who make unsubstantiated claims about how to play other classes and ships "properly". As for "people who play well", are you referring to those TacEscorts who are able to simply throttle down to zero on someone's facing, and hammer away at them because their weapons are too weak to even breach their shields? If you do not fly Federation cruisers as a matter of course, then you have no right to disparagingly talk about how people should play.

Anyone who claims that there are no problems at all with the current game dynamic is full of ****.

Last edited by eraserfish; 03-24-2013 at 06:13 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 270
# 66
03-24-2013, 06:49 PM
Um, ok, firstly, no; if escorts get any less durable than they already are then how the hell is anyone supposed to do the campaign? I run with a patrol escort, VA with a rare covariant cap2 shield and 2 neutronium alloy and I still have trouble with some of the npc ships, especially since I'm usually solo and not in a fleet.

Secondly, steadfastly NO; if tacs get any weaker on ground then they're going to be one-shotted by pretty much everything, I can't tell you how many hypos and what not I go through in ground combat and I STILL have to get rezz at least once on pretty much every map, given that I know how to spec and equip my team to be effective and I fight cautiously, that shouldn't happen nearly so often - nerfing their durability any more than they have already would just ruin them.

Thirdly, finally, WHAT?!?: Now look, I can see why tacs should be nerfed in pvp, that's fair but I, personally, get tired of the constant ******** and moaning from people with a pvp/fleet action mentality (I don't see any other reason that you'd be complaining so if you're not in that group, just take this as disjointed ranting), there is more to the game than pvp/fleet action.

Having said all of that, nerfing the high level npc ships for solo players, now THAT, that I can understand.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 67
03-24-2013, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushariagain View Post
Um, ok, firstly, no; if escorts get any less durable than they already are then how the hell is anyone supposed to do the campaign? I run with a patrol escort, VA with a rare covariant cap2 shield and 2 neutronium alloy and I still have trouble with some of the npc ships, especially since I'm usually solo and not in a fleet.

Secondly, steadfastly NO; if tacs get any weaker on ground then they're going to be one-shotted by pretty much everything, I can't tell you how many hypos and what not I go through in ground combat and I STILL have to get rezz at least once on pretty much every map, given that I know how to spec and equip my team to be effective and I fight cautiously, that shouldn't happen nearly so often - nerfing their durability any more than they have already would just ruin them.

Thirdly, finally, WHAT?!?: Now look, I can see why tacs should be nerfed in pvp, that's fair but I, personally, get tired of the constant ******** and moaning from people with a pvp/fleet action mentality (I don't see any other reason that you'd be complaining so if you're not in that group, just take this as disjointed ranting), there is more to the game than pvp/fleet action.

Having said all of that, nerfing the high level npc ships for solo players, now THAT, that I can understand.
Tell us your load-out and I will tell you what the hell you are doing wrong.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,925
# 68
03-24-2013, 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushariagain View Post
Um, ok, firstly, no; if escorts get any less durable than they already are then how the hell is anyone supposed to do the campaign? I run with a patrol escort, VA with a rare covariant cap2 shield and 2 neutronium alloy and I still have trouble with some of the npc ships, especially since I'm usually solo and not in a fleet.

Secondly, steadfastly NO; if tacs get any weaker on ground then they're going to be one-shotted by pretty much everything, I can't tell you how many hypos and what not I go through in ground combat and I STILL have to get rezz at least once on pretty much every map, given that I know how to spec and equip my team to be effective and I fight cautiously, that shouldn't happen nearly so often - nerfing their durability any more than they have already would just ruin them.

Thirdly, finally, WHAT?!?: Now look, I can see why tacs should be nerfed in pvp, that's fair but I, personally, get tired of the constant ******** and moaning from people with a pvp/fleet action mentality (I don't see any other reason that you'd be complaining so if you're not in that group, just take this as disjointed ranting), there is more to the game than pvp/fleet action.

Having said all of that, nerfing the high level npc ships for solo players, now THAT, that I can understand.
Agreed. I also have a fine Fleet Excelsior who can tank any tactical cube or Donatra scimitar that happens to cross its way. Oooh..and deal medium damage.

I alone in my ship let 4 pugs survive instead of gettine one shotted. I let them fight and deal some damage myself, and I'm awesome to do that.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,135
# 69
03-24-2013, 08:25 PM
how about yes. tried and felt the pain of my science ship as a science captain today. not fun being tin foil all the time.
MMO's of 2014 where normal gameplay is considered an exploit and the eastern billing model is celebrated by apologists. smh
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 70
03-24-2013, 08:57 PM
1 nerf I can think of is to make Attack Pattern Alpha share a cooldown with other Attack Patterns. Makes no sense to be able to run 2 Attack Patterns at same time.
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