Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 81
03-24-2013, 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catoblepasbeta View Post
Darn right I do. I actually don't even like the alignment system very much.
The alignment system is remains from D&D origins, Chaimail and continued because there are mechanics around alignment (and I mentioned one spell) and so cannot just be dropped, too much existed around it and D&D had a moral absolutism.

However Good and Evil do not mean Right and Wrong,

Unfortunately people appeared to got too much caught up on the system and the two words that they never really understand one thing, it was a mechanic ... it was pointless to bother about it because unless you were a cleric or one of the classes that had alignment restrictions (notable: Paladin) it had little actual effect.

To me the alignment system was never a problem, it was only a problem for certain "rule lawyers" that lacking anything better to do decided to pick on a mostly harmless mechanic for the sheer principle of it, that it did not conformed to their views of morality.

Same people were the ones that cried since 2nd Ed come out and now Mystra was NG because we could not have a NG God(dess) of Magic were even the attempt at appeasement with the whole Shadow Weave thing did not stop them.

And then we had the Spellplague, are they happy now because they could not just go back and pretend the Time of Troubles never happened?

Quote:
The difference is that you have options in STO, options to choose to be exceptional, or not. We are getting a splinter faction to the exclusion of the main faction. That is different.
No, its not.

You have NO OPTIONS in STO ... go arrest Obisek, try it ... does it change anything at all? does the Romulan Front ends at ?Frozen??

No, you get "Coliseum" and "Cutting the Cord" no matter what.

Also again, you want a dead faction? you are getting Romulans that ARE going to cooperate with the Federation and the KDF because THAT is the end game and also future development of the game, now you either take something that works or you get a bizarre RSE that does it for NO reason and they are allowed because ... oh you RSE want End Game content.

Again, the choice is either THIS or DEATH ...

And fact is you arent even trying ... we have Joined Trill on the KDF, the Trill are a Federation member and also we have Klingons on Starfleet, these are options but none REACTS to them, its even worst on the KDF were everyone reacts as if you are a Klingon REGARDLESS of race.

Quote:
Accusing me of absolute moralism? Have you even been reading my posts? I don't believe in any such thing.
Were I made such accusation? I said D&D is a universe with a absolute moralism since that is the alignment system, the universe declares things to be "good","evil","lawful" and "chaotic", Drow fall under that because they are considered to be evil but question is are they because of their race or because of their upbringing?

This is why I said you cannot put on the same bag Romulans and Drow because Drow have been labeled as "CE" as no such label was ever put on the Romulans because such system does not exist in Star Trek.

Quote:
Again, completely taking everythign I say out of context to further your agenda. It's not as simple as that. heck, it isn't even remotely like that. I don't have a problem with peopel having their 'exceptional' characters-heck, I have even suggested Playable species unlocks, zen unlocked bridge offciers, etc to faucilitate this. it would be agreat way for people who want to RP a renegade Romulan or a Reunificationist or whatever. I have a problem with Cryptic taking away our ability to play as *normal* Romulans, like the captains and commanders so often showcased in the show.
Understand this.

Your normal Romulan is like playing a Borg, can be done? yes but explain how the hell are you getting then on the Omega Force?

They can make a RSE with you going around doing ... doing .... doing ...
What?

No, serious ... WHAT? If you actually got a RSE guess what? Sela is still gone after "Cutting the Cord" so it ends? and you be doing what? helping blow up Vulcan because "a eye for a eye, a world for a world" ? Were the heck that makes sense?

You want a dead faction because as I said they are not going to drop the Federation and all content from this point will be Romulan, if want to be in a position were Cryptic choices are Fed/KDF missions orRSE missions guess whats going to be picked?

You want death, I dont ... I want a Romulan faction that in no way excludes me for acting (as much Cryptic allows) as a more "classic" Romulan thinking the old Romulan methods are more effective, after all what are the real differences of the RSE and this RR in organization?

I see same ranks, I see same basic political model (D'tan is Proconsul) so what are exactly the differences?

A less ... chaotic Romulan faction is required for players, they had to pick SOMETHING.

Either way your "normal" Romulan is not really prevented to exist, its just his opportunities lie on a more stable Romulan faction, not the mess that come after Sela's disappearance.

Quote:
I am not dictating any rules to anyone, despite whatever words you try to cram into my mouth. This is all my opinion, which I am entitled to voice.
You are actually because the moment you said something about "Good" Drow and consistence you were setting a limit, as "only this many good aligned Drow I am allowing to exist for consistence" ... does not matter if its a number or a percentage, its a arbitrary rule that exists only because of "consistence" when I mentioned very few players will ever bother with "roleplaying", you might as well decide only so many Rangers can exist for consistence or anything really because in the end Alignment becomes nothing but another stat, like Strength.


Quote:
All of this is wild conjecture and baseless accusations against my positions.

You need to calm down and take a chill pill, in my opinion.
I seen many players being angry that they are not getting their Romulan Star Empire like in TNG or DS9 but fact is you would never get your Romulan Star Empire in STO because Hobus happened, the Romulans are in the exact same position as the Klingons were when Praxis exploded but at least the Klingons had the good sense of recognizing they needed help and werent afraid to ask for it ... sure you had people with different thoughts about it but in the end the old TOS Klingon Empire was gone because of Praxis.

The Romulans had Hobus.

I am angry at people wanting a worst KDF because ultimate that is were the "old" RSE leads ... you want a type of content that excludes further expansion leading to a dead faction, at least the KDF is making steps into cross-fraction despite the angry cries of some KDF players that think Cryptic can do two independent factions storylines after 3 years of them proving they CANT, you are asking for a third.

I want a healthy Romulan faction, I can work with D'tan really ... its not even that hard since heck I been subjected to worst on the KDF, others want a "one update" faction that is what the old Romulan Star Empire ... it makes then no different of Romulan players that were willing to throw away a Romulan Faction for a Lock box D'Deridex so they could play their fake Alien Romulans on the KDF/Fed on one.

I want a faction with a future, if it means a Romulan Republic so be it ... I dont want yet another Cryptic system that after a while they grow tired of it and move to a new one, the Old Romulan Star Empire is gone, been that way for quite a while and offer no future, cannot offer a future because in STO the future is Iconians and end game is STFs and I am not going to play a faction when after playing the story missions there is nothing to do, there is no end game outside grinding for a Tholian Reputation that is likely to be offered to Fed and KDF as well.

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 03-24-2013 at 12:26 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 355
# 82
03-24-2013, 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
I seen many players being angry that they are not getting their Romulan Star Empire like in TNG or DS9 but fact is you would never get your Romulan Star Empire in STO because Hobus happened, the Romulans are in the exact same position as the Klingons were when Praxis exploded but at least the Klingons had the good sense of recognizing they needed help and werent afraid to ask for it ... sure you had people with different thoughts about it but in the end the old TOS Klingon Empire was gone because of Praxis.

It's worth pointing out here that cooperation between the Klingons and the Federation after Praxis was opposed or supported by various people on both sides because... WAIT FOR IT... neither side is a hive mind where everybody has the exact same beliefs and opinions.

That was one of the main story points of Star Trek VI.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 83
03-24-2013, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkelfofficer View Post
It's worth pointing out here that cooperation between the Klingons and the Federation after Praxis was opposed or supported by various people on both sides because... WAIT FOR IT... neither side is a hive mind where everybody has the exact same beliefs and opinions.

That was one of the main story points of Star Trek VI.
I know.

But fact is Klingons were in a very precarious situation, they could no longer maintain their large fleet (since their Dilithium supply was from Praxis) and Qo'noS suffered much damage from the exploding Moon.

Chang proposal was eventual war because they really didnt had much of a choice as many Federation officers felt that it was better to handle it that way that help a enemy to get back on their feet.

And the Romulans was a win-win situation, maintaining the status quo and push for a Klingon-Federation War that would weaken then, at worst they would have to fight a weaken Klingon Empire because as I said Chang really didnt have much options.

Similar the Romulans lost their home SYSTEM, in fact what is odd is nobody really did what the Klingon Canceller did until after Sela disappearance, it was just a bunch of Preators and Empresses that did nothing outside trying to maintain control and that is no way to run a country, certainly not after a disaster.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 748
# 84
03-24-2013, 12:47 AM
ok.. Star Trek not D&D.. if ya'll gonna talk never winter.. take it to the never winter forums PLEASE! *sigh*

As far as "ggod Guys" faction..in Trek.. there isn't one.

What there is how ever is a sort of "Cultural chavanism" All of the major "empires" are multiracial/multi cultural to a point.. The UFP obviously so.. The Klingons have become more so.. though perhapes they always were to a certain extent. The Romulans, incluse Remans, and several minor client races... and the list goes on.

But each and every one of them belives "they" are the best, most deserving of domination, etc..

Well, so much for that.

I didn't think the Cryptic was going to bang out the Romulans as a playable faction quite so soon. I would have prefered a more machavellian Romulan faction, but then there is no reason that the players themselves cant be Romulnas in the classic sense. It's all up to them.

Khemaraa sends
Release 8.5 "STO The Next Generation"

Let the happy old bug stomping commence, along with refinement toward enhancing each factions play experience!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 140
# 85
03-24-2013, 01:08 AM
A Romulan faction from day one would have been nice, but since I've invested 3 years in my Fed characters it's just too little too late. I want Fed content and what happened to the 2 promised Featured Episodes in 2012? In the back of my mind I think it's just another way to get a huge instant cash injection for Cryptic.

So how much do I want a Romulan faction? Zero.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 347
# 86
03-24-2013, 01:12 AM
I have always wanted to play a Romulan, but not necessarily in a Romulan faction. That being said, I am now eyeing my Federation character as a miner for my future Romulan.

Legacy of Romulus - Closed Beta - Round 1 Playtester
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,375
# 87
03-24-2013, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
(Alignment stuff)
Good and Evil are societal labels whose purpose is to differentiate between varying degrees of socially acceptable behavour and non-socially acceptable behaviour within the context of a society. That's all.

As to the rest of your tirade here, all I have been saying is that the RSE is the appropriate and obvious choice for a faction, while these splinter groups such as D'Tan and the RR are not. While those groups may be 'good' by our standards (and certainly from their POV) the RSE is an 'evil' faction, even if they themselves do not see themselves as such.

As far as Romulans (and Drow) are concerned, 'evil' is the expected standard, and 'good' the exception. An 'evil' faction of Romulans is thus the expected faction, not these 'good' Romulan Republic fellows. 'Good'/Renegade/Whatever Romulans are not an appropriate match for a species which has for so long been defined as 'evil'. There, I hope that clears up this pedantic alignment side-argument you seem to have fixed on, because it really is getting tiring and I'm not sure what on earth your point is supposed to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Understand this.

Your normal Romulan is like playing a Borg, can be done? yes but explain how the hell are you getting then on the Omega Force?

They can make a RSE with you going around doing ... doing .... doing ...
What?

No, serious ... WHAT? If you actually got a RSE guess what? Sela is still gone after "Cutting the Cord" so it ends? and you be doing what? helping blow up Vulcan because "a eye for a eye, a world for a world" ? Were the heck that makes sense?

You want a dead faction because as I said they are not going to drop the Federation and all content from this point will be Romulan, if want to be in a position were Cryptic choices are Fed/KDF missions orRSE missions guess whats going to be picked?

You want death, I dont ... I want a Romulan faction that in no way excludes me for acting (as much Cryptic allows) as a more "classic" Romulan thinking the old Romulan methods are more effective, after all what are the real differences of the RSE and this RR in organization?

I see same ranks, I see same basic political model (D'tan is Proconsul) so what are exactly the differences?

A less ... chaotic Romulan faction is required for players, they had to pick SOMETHING.

Either way your "normal" Romulan is not really prevented to exist, its just his opportunities lie on a more stable Romulan faction, not the mess that come after Sela's disappearance.
There are already borg players doing STFs, in case you haven't noticed. They are not part of a Borg faction. I have already suggested zen store unlocks for Romulan players who want to play 'good' guys, since they are the exception rather than the rule. As for what RSE players would be doing? Fighting the KDF, FEDs, like they already do in the storyline, rebuilding their empire, rescuing Sela from the Undine, there's a lot for them to do, and a lot of it is stuff that the RR will have to deal with to, in their own manner, but it was not necessary for the RSE to become the RR and lose all of its special flavor in order to do them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
(I seen many players being angry that they are not getting their Romulan Star Empire like in TNG or DS9 but fact is you would never get your Romulan Star Empire in STO because Hobus happened, the Romulans are in the exact same position as the Klingons were when Praxis exploded but at least the Klingons had the good sense of recognizing they needed help and werent afraid to ask for it ... sure you had people with different thoughts about it but in the end the old TOS Klingon Empire was gone because of Praxis.

The Romulans had Hobus.

I am angry at people wanting a worst KDF because ultimate that is were the "old" RSE leads ... you want a type of content that excludes further expansion leading to a dead faction, at least the KDF is making steps into cross-fraction despite the angry cries of some KDF players that think Cryptic can do two independent factions storylines after 3 years of them proving they CANT, you are asking for a third.

I want a healthy Romulan faction, I can work with D'tan really ... its not even that hard since heck I been subjected to worst on the KDF, others want a "one update" faction that is what the old Romulan Star Empire ... it makes then no different of Romulan players that were willing to throw away a Romulan Faction for a Lock box D'Deridex so they could play their fake Alien Romulans on the KDF/Fed on one.

I want a faction with a future, if it means a Romulan Republic so be it ... I dont want yet another Cryptic system that after a while they grow tired of it and move to a new one, the Old Romulan Star Empire is gone, been that way for quite a while and offer no future, cannot offer a future because in STO the future is Iconians and end game is STFs and I am not going to play a faction when after playing the story missions there is nothing to do, there is no end game outside grinding for a Tholian Reputation that is likely to be offered to Fed and KDF as well
I could see where you were coming from, perhaps. If the RSE wasn't alive and kicking and up to their old shennanegins even with Hobus. Even the old Klingon Empire rebounded with enough time, just look at STO. They didn't have to give up their warrior culture with its honor, glory, duty fixation, its duels etc. The Romulan faction could have been the story of them rebounding. It still will be, just as the RR isntead of the RSE-the important part here is that nothing necessitated them from beign made into the RR. They could have doen all of this as the RSE. The RSE had just as much potential to rebound as the RR, it is just that Crypric chose not to.

As for end content? There is pleanty of stuff they could do, and just because they could be the RSE does not mean they cannot participate in STFs and other end game content. The Iconians (more than any other faction), Borg, Undine, and Tholians are everyone's problem. If you watched DS9, you might have noticed the Romulans joined the war against the Dominion. They didn't need to become Freedom fighters to do it either. There are pleanty of ways the RSE could have been implemented with meaningful content.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 88
03-24-2013, 06:02 AM
i dont need a new Faction... i need new gameplay!
I have 10 active lvl 50 Characters, 6 FED, 4 KDF... i've seen it all, i've done it all...
and in the end you go with what works best for you... by now all my chars tend to use the same style of Ship (Escorts! only DPS counts anymore), the same 3 type of ground Kits... for the same 3 Classes... again and again... i avoid SCI ships, i moved away from Cruisers more and more Escorts find their way into my Characters. Carriers are boring, Sci ships don't feel like they are doing anything to me... Cruisers are flying stones that no one will shoot at...


I really hope that this Romulan Faction will come with more than just copy and paste-Skilltree / Kit / BOff abilities / the default 3 Character Classes from the FEDs + KDF.

The KDF at least had the Bird of Prey and Carriers which set the faction apart just enough to not be a 100% copy cat of the Feds. Which was watered down a bit over the 3 years...

What will the Romulans bring to the table?
more cloaking device? KDF has that already to perfection...
More cloaking device working as intended boff popups? *facepalm*


The Join FED / KDF later thing is not from the table yet. So i really hope that after the 5 or maybe 10 Romulan Story missions that we may get, i will not just be flying a Warbird with a green UI for the FED / KDF...
then it would be just another LockBox ship at Endgame, and that would be major FAIL SAUCE.

Last edited by zerobang; 03-24-2013 at 06:10 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 89
03-24-2013, 06:19 AM
Personally? A great deal more than I ever wanted the Klingons.

I'm more into brains over brawn bad guys.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,177
# 90
03-24-2013, 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkelfofficer View Post
I've been waiting for Romulans from day one.
this 1000 x this

Join the premiere Romulan community now!
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