Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 41
03-28-2013, 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I completely disagree with the idea but if your gonna push for these changes on the feds its only fair that the KDF battle cruisers are also similarily buffed to maintane gameplay feel and factional differences.
Probably, but KDF battlecruisers presently have advantages that Federation cruisers do not. They'd still have access to cloaking and DHC/DC, not to mention the fact that KDF already have a craft with Universal stations all across, as opposed to the limited Universals I'm suggesting here.

In any case, I hope you have a more substantial reason for disagreeing than most of the naysayers so far.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 42
03-28-2013, 07:05 AM
What BoPs have (or don't have) is really irrelevant to a cruiser discussion. Especially in light of the fact that the KDF doesn't have their own science ships.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 43
03-28-2013, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
Probably, but KDF battlecruisers presently have advantages that Federation cruisers do not. They'd still have access to cloaking and DHC/DC, not to mention the fact that KDF already have a craft with Universal stations all across, as opposed to the limited Universals I'm suggesting here.

In any case, I hope you have a more substantial reason for disagreeing than most of the naysayers so far.
Only that its not really needed as the feds have cruisers choices that allow for diversity and already cover those listed KDF advantages ingame.
Turn buff would be welcome but a 2 point buff would make ded cruisers turn equal to many KDF BCs and we would need a equal buff to keep that advantage and difference of gameplay.
A universal console slot for cruisers is an interesting idea.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 44
03-28-2013, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
What BoPs have (or don't have) is really irrelevant to a cruiser discussion. Especially in light of the fact that the KDF doesn't have their own science ships.
Tell that to the person who posted before the post that I have made, because I wasn't the one who started the argument of "if x on that side, then x on this side". As for science ships, KDF isn't exactly missing out in that respect, and the Varanus is pretty damn close to a science ship in all respects but name.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 45
03-28-2013, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Only that its not really needed as the feds have cruisers choices that allow for diversity and already cover those listed KDF advantages ingame.
Turn buff would be welcome but a 2 point buff would make ded cruisers turn equal to many KDF BCs and we would need a equal buff to keep that advantage and difference of gameplay.
A universal console slot for cruisers is an interesting idea.
The only cruiser choice that allows for any degree of diversity is the Odyssey line; Federation cruiser builds are essentially limited to tanking, for most part. Even cruisers that feature a tactical focus have difficulty cranking out damage.

Again, the reason I suggest these changes have less to do with comparing Federation cruisers to KDF battlecruisers and more to do with their specific design being far too restrictive. While the Klingons have similar problems to some extent, they're not nearly as restricted where damage-dealing is concerned and can still provide tanking and support. They're big heavy bruisers, and their slightly better turn rate makes everything (from shooting to support or whatever) so much easier.

That being said, I do think that my concerns regarding Federation cruisers apply to Klingon battlecruisers to some extent. They could use at least one universal BOff station on each of their battlecruisers, as well as a universal console. But again, if we were to go back to fluff and role within their faction, they're not in the same situation as Federation cruisers where they don't do anything that another ship can do better. I don't think that changes should go nearly to the same extent as what I suggest for Federation cruisers.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,219
# 46
03-28-2013, 08:11 AM
What to cruisers do better then any other ship type?

Apparently attract captans that like to stick their fingers in their ears and go "NANANANANANA" when the people who know how to fly a cruiser pop their heads into threads and say "Umm.. I'm not sure what is going on with you guys, but I'm putting out some mad numbers with this build, so I'm not sure why you are having problems breaking 3k."

I'll never understand why when somebody says they can't do something, their first instinct when shown a way to achieve what they first thought they could not is to get offended and cling to their original premise instead of growing and realizing that possibly somebody else might be doing it right...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 47
03-28-2013, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
What to cruisers do better then any other ship type?

Apparently attract captans that like to stick their fingers in their ears and go "NANANANANANA" when the people who know how to fly a cruiser pop their heads into threads and say "Umm.. I'm not sure what is going on with you guys, but I'm putting out some mad numbers with this build, so I'm not sure why you are having problems breaking 3k."

I'll never understand why when somebody says they can't do something, their first instinct when shown a way to achieve what they first thought they could not is to get offended and cling to their original premise instead of growing and realizing that possibly somebody else might be doing it right...
I've never used a combat parser (so I can't give you exact numbers) but I can safely tell you that my offensive Regent is at least capable of doing threatening damage in PvP. In any case, I don't think you appreciate how much harder it is for a cruiser to deal decent damage: a bad build means that you will melt very fast and still fail to do damage close to an escort's level. I don't say that it is impossible, but it is difficult and you do get comparatively less out of it.

I'm not going to dispute that cruisers are absolutely boss at tanking and support compared to science vessels or escorts. But with the introduction of the Atrox and increasing proliferation of carriers, what do they do better, exactly? With the Atrox, you have access to Transfer Shield Strength 3 and Hazard Emitters 3 in a ship that has decent Engineering, is tougher than a cruiser, and can also launch pets for support. Granted, its mobility characteristics manage to be even worse, but Federation cruisers aren't much better off either.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,219
# 48
03-28-2013, 08:39 AM
Oddly, the Atrox doesn't tank as well as it looks on paper. I think it has to do with its speed.

The Atrox suffers not only from a low turn rate, but low inertia rating and top speed. Given the same gear I'm still going to suffer more hits and crits then a cruiser.

I'm not saying the Atrox isn't da bomb, just its a flimsier tank then you would expect her to be, a heavy sci cruiser could match her tricks and eat fire that would smoke my Atrox in one shot. Of course the Atrox would out DPS it, but that is ok, because if the Atrox took the hit instead of the cruiser the Atrox wouldn't have lived to do that DPS, and it wouldn't be a huge DPS margin in the best of cases.

The beauty of the Atrox is, as opposed to a ship like the Ody that can spec hard down any one road and do very well, the Atrox can soak an apprecable amount of damage, deal a crazy amount of damage, heal like a woman possesed, and have a full complement of sci tricks all at the same time. It suffers by not hitting quite the peak in any one of those areas ever. (Well, unless your in a pug of bads. A good Atrox can do more then an entire group of bads combined...)
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 49
03-28-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
Tell that to the person who posted before the post that I have made, because I wasn't the one who started the argument of "if x on that side, then x on this side". As for science ships, KDF isn't exactly missing out in that respect, and the Varanus is pretty damn close to a science ship in all respects but name.
Bitemepwe's point was that a huge change was asked for in regards to Federation cruisers, and to maintain parity the exact same change should be implemented for the KDF equivalent.
There was absolutely nothing in there about "well, the Feds get XYZQ and W, therefore all of that should be added to KDF ships".

Secondly, do you really want to defend the position that there's no science ship disparity when the only KDF science ship is one you have to drop twenty bucks on?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,795
# 50
03-28-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Only that its not really needed as the feds have cruisers choices that allow for diversity and already cover those listed KDF advantages ingame.
Turn buff would be welcome but a 2 point buff would make ded cruisers turn equal to many KDF BCs and we would need a equal buff to keep that advantage and difference of gameplay.
A universal console slot for cruisers is an interesting idea.
If you hint to the Hull Hitpoint bonus Starfleet Cruisers have, then i would say, make them equal in order to get other advantages for Starfleet Cruisers.
Because some 1000 more hull hitpoints is really not a real big advantage if you could have DHCs and a higher turnrate and more tactical BOFF&Console layout in exchange.

Healing and Resistances is already so high in STO, some thousand more Hull Hitpoints don't carry much weight IMO. Originally Starfleet Cruisers got more hull in order to wear an enemy down the longer a fight lasted, but today even a Escorts can outheal a Starfleet cruisers weapons damage with ease.

So i would say Cryptics devs should increase Klingon Cruiser Hull to make them equal to Starfleet Cruisers Hull Hitpoints. Starfleet Cruiser should get a turn Rate Boost+Dual Cannons.
So KDF Cruiser still had a superior BOFF & Console Layout and Dual HEAVY cannons. So there would be no reason to moan for the Klingons, they still would have the Better Cruisers. But Starfleet Cruisers finally had some means of fighting back.

Last edited by yreodred; 03-28-2013 at 08:48 AM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:52 PM.