Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
# 21
03-27-2013, 02:29 PM
Personally I think the OP here is being very constructive and try to see solutions rather than problems. A trait that is somewhat rare, and valuable.

I can understand the comparison to the orchestra as well, but we're talking about a public pick-up-group where anyone can join, and anyone should be able to join. This is the mechanic that the developers have devised. This is an intended mechanic, in this game.

Going with the orchestra theory, if you went to the city and started picking up street-musicians that played classical instruments and put them all in a room and started to play some known classical piece you can be sure there would be variations in the interpretations of said classic. Some of these musicians might not even have much if any experience playing together with a larger ensemble as well. And the violin-player, who really is a heavy metal guitarist named Darth Barth, always love to make a solo at the end of each set. Which may, or may not annoy some or all of the other players. But....everyone chose to be there, out of their own free will.

Last night I did the Cure Found (E) and we had some people that was not quite used to this so the spawns started to get a bit more hairy than normal. Instead of wasting valuable time writing in chat, spewing bile at people, I did my best to clean up and I did. Match took a fair bit more than usual, the OP timed out, but we won the match as a whole. And it was fun, and they had fun. We all thanked each other for a good game. We lost a few points, but we had fun.

The point of a game is to have fun, isn't it? I know there are people that put all their energy and time to grind towards something, be it a set or for the sake of the grind itself. Making it, in my eyes, a bit more work than fun. And they do not like to loose those 15 or so points because it wastes their time. But then why join a public group and not make a private with like minded people who most likely happily will do the grind to the letter and by the numbers?

I might be crazy for saying this, but I think a public group should be open to any and all active players no matter what they bring to the table. If this mechanic is not preferable then it should be taken up with the developers as a suggestion on how one thinks the game could be modified for a better experience for those that do the grind seriously.

Well, that's my 5 cents. Back to the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,829
# 22
03-27-2013, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moronwmachinegun View Post
Stop exaggerating what he says. He doesn't mean solo'ing an STF like Vexashen did (Hi Vex, kill you in fleet PvP Thursday! ). He means CARRYING a pug. That means YOU guard the Kang. YOU watch for nanite spheres on the side closest to the gate. YOU stop at least one side of probes in KASE. TELL the rest of the team what you're doing. And bring enough DPS to the match to matter.

.
Fair enough, I brought the word solo in.

It was, however, an extrapolation of what OP was suggesting.

Essentially they suggest that it doesn't matter what any of your team mates do. If your ship/build can't do all that is necessary then it doesn't matter. Which sounds like soloing to me.

I disagree, simply, with that.

You go on in your post to talk of the enhanced challenge of playing in pugs, as opposed to with fleet mates. Not knowing what support, if any, you're going to get is part of the fun I agree.

Being able to do all that you can to adapt to such situations is where i think we can all agree.

However, if you've got two escorts that dont have enough DPs, someone who thinks it helpful to blow the other side on conduit, and an AFKer.......then I don't think you've failed, even if things go pear shaped. Nor do i believe theres any percentage in whining about it.

You do the best you can, you make a conscious choice to get better, and you take advantage of any and all constructive criticism that helps.

Do all of that, and even if you miss the optional, you're not the same as that AFker or the idiot who can't read a simple forum post on STF strategy.

Trying and failing is qualitively different to not trying and failing. The former carries the seeds of success, the latter is just a loop of badness.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 23
03-27-2013, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthang View Post
Last night I did the Cure Found (E) and we had some people that was not quite used to this so the spawns started to get a bit more hairy than normal. Instead of wasting valuable time writing in chat, spewing bile at people, I did my best to clean up and I did. Match took a fair bit more than usual, the OP timed out, but we won the match as a whole. And it was fun, and they had fun. We all thanked each other for a good game. We lost a few points, but we had fun.
That's what any player should do. One cannot control the actions of their teammates and if someone messes up or is unfamiliar with the mission the others should be willing (if able) to drop what their doing and step up to clean the mess- even if that only means holding off the agro long enough to blow the generator or allow the other guys time to regroup.

Sometimes no matter what you do you can't salvage the mission. I had one a couple nights ago in (called the conduit or something now) where 1 guy was blasting the gate 2 others were off chasing spheres while 1 was blasting a generator and I did my best to hold the agro coming out of the gate to buy time but it was a free-for-all (lost cause).

Blown optional, but it happens.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Contact support @ https://support.perfectworld.com/app/ask
to show your displeasure over the stealth mail attachment nerf
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,978
# 24
03-27-2013, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkster View Post

You do the best you can, you make a conscious choice to get better, and you take advantage of any and all constructive criticism that helps.
With that thought in your mind please re-read my OP.
Get yer Fleet Gear here!
Military 5 / Engineering 4 / Science 4
Starbase 5 / Embassy 3 / Mine 3 / Spire 3
Diplomacy 3 / Recruit 3 / Trade 3 / Development 3 / Research 3 / Operations 3
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post16435781
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,606
# 25
03-27-2013, 03:37 PM
I notice you are only talking about space. I think it is much harder to carry a team on the ground. In some cases, it is impossible. For example, if three players decide to quit, you won't have enough players to click the consoles in IGE.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,829
# 26
03-28-2013, 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
With that thought in your mind please re-read my OP.
"If the optional fails it is your fault that it failed even if you had 4 AFKers understand?"

Thats the bit that I objected to, and isn't either constructive or fair.

The rest I have no issue with, although your insistence on carying DHC does seem somewhat arguable. Nevertheless, it is arguable.

But if I have four AFKers, and I fail the optional, I'm not going to feel culpable or responsible.

Because, in that case, I'm neither.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,978
# 27
03-28-2013, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkster View Post
"If the optional fails it is your fault that it failed even if you had 4 AFKers understand?"

Thats the bit that I objected to, and isn't either constructive or fair.

The rest I have no issue with, although your insistence on carying DHC does seem somewhat arguable. Nevertheless, it is arguable.

But if I have four AFKers, and I fail the optional, I'm not going to feel culpable or responsible.

Because, in that case, I'm neither.
I see what you are saying, that their is a 'grey' area which is always true to some extent but I find with text information using a more extreme stance with black and white tends to avoid an argument defining that grey area. If one states with 4 AKFers you are not responsible that makes sense to most rational people but where is the line drawn, does a single AFKer make you not responsible? And so on but really it does not matter as my message can be boiled down to a simple core of 'don't blame other player performance which you have no control over, simply try to improve your own' and I think you get that core and agree with it. It's just that grey area that you have issue with and that is perfectly fine each is entitled to define it as they see fit.

As for the DHC thing that simply comes down to ease of use or lower barrier to entry for your average player to carry with them. Nothing more nothing less. And honestly you can bring a T2 beam boat into an STF as I've stated many times I do not care one iota what others fly. After all if your not having fun with the ship you fly then why on earth are you even playing the game!
Get yer Fleet Gear here!
Military 5 / Engineering 4 / Science 4
Starbase 5 / Embassy 3 / Mine 3 / Spire 3
Diplomacy 3 / Recruit 3 / Trade 3 / Development 3 / Research 3 / Operations 3
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post16435781
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,829
# 28
03-28-2013, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I see what you are saying, that their is a 'grey' area which is always true to some extent but I find with text information using a more extreme stance with black and white tends to avoid an argument defining that grey area. If one states with 4 AKFers you are not responsible that makes sense to most rational people but where is the line drawn, does a single AFKer make you not responsible? And so on but really it does not matter as my message can be boiled down to a simple core of 'don't blame other player performance which you have no control over, simply try to improve your own' and I think you get that core and agree with it. It's just that grey area that you have issue with and that is perfectly fine each is entitled to define it as they see fit.

As for the DHC thing that simply comes down to ease of use or lower barrier to entry for your average player to carry with them. Nothing more nothing less. And honestly you can bring a T2 beam boat into an STF as I've stated many times I do not care one iota what others fly. After all if your not having fun with the ship you fly then why on earth are you even playing the game!
I do see your point. And, yes, it's about defining that grey area.

What is the dividing line between doing all you could and achieving the impractical?

Difficult to define, partially because it's a moving target.

For myself, a little while ago, it was hard for me to survive an entire ESTF. Now, it's not the issue....I've evolved, got better. In large part from doing exactly the sort of thing you suggest.

Taking a long critical look at what I've been doing, looking for useful information and applying it.

Finally, the thing I most agree with you on, is that it's about having fun. I'm congenitally not a griefer, so not letting my team down is part of that fun.

Fun together in those ESTF teams, in my opinion, is what keeps the game interesting for me.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,918
# 29
04-04-2013, 12:01 PM
Its nice to be told that despite the fact I can defend the Kang in CSE or hold spheres for a while in ISE or hold one side of probes AND spheres in KASE that I'm of no more worth than your average PuG because I fly an engineer in a cruiser and as such can't carry an entire team...

Thanks for that, it make me feel absolutely great to know that I as a player am worthless... oh, did I say thanks?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 30
04-12-2013, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matridunadan1 View Post
So this basically boils down to "Fly an escort or get lost"?

Because that's what this thread is saying.
Nope, carriers are probably more capable. Offensive cruisers and torp sci boats also are quite capable.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 AM.