Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,448
# 111
05-03-2013, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.

This should not be inferior to Omega, because Omega is no longer the endgame- and in your very own words, not every item should be useful to every individual in every situation- but with the insistence that 'omega is endgame, everything else should be inferior', you're forcing a false choice dichotomy when you really shouldn't.

All rep is endgame, so it should be on par with eachother rather than having one set be superior to another across the board because the means to get it used to be 'harder'.

And to be completely honest? Romulan and Tholian rep are HARDER to grind than Omega, because STFs are easier, faster, and more fun than the comparative missions and zones for Romulan and Tholian rep.

By that standard, Romulan and Tholian rep items should be BETTER than Omega, because Omega is far, *far* easier to do.
At least from a new level 50's perspective, I'd think the project cooldowns on Romulan and Omega rep should be lower.

If the gear is intended to be inferior, it should be faster to get.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,198
# 112
05-03-2013, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.
I'm going to echo this. In my opinion, the Reputation system should open up at level 45. After all, you don't need to be level 50 to do an STF on normal. Shouldn't you be able to earn the gear if you can play the content?

And while those levels may not be "endgame" they're close enough. The lower-end rep gear would be more than fine for that level of play, wouldn't it? The higher end stuff should be close to, if not equal to, STF gear.
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Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 844
# 113
05-03-2013, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I'm going to echo this. In my opinion, the Reputation system should open up at level 45.
Now theres the best idea ive heard in a long while i second this
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 774
# 114
05-03-2013, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
I agree.

If I'm having to grind Nukara rep at the same time as I grind Omega rep, but all the Omega stuff is clearly better on purpose, why am I grinding Nukara rep?

I thought the idea of reputations was to provide alternatives to Omega gear, not lower quality stuff.
Not only is it better on purpose, but it's far, *far* easier to get.

A single elite STF run will get you between 75 and 100 omega marks, and that'll take you about half an hour.

Half an hour running new romulus, or grinding Nukara will net you... maybe 30 marks if you're lucky?

So yeah. Why are we putting lightyears more effort into getting deliberately inferior items? Exactly?

That "STF is the endgame" line only worked when STF's were the endgame. Now all this level 50 rep based content is the endgame, and frankly it's just insulting that you guys are continuing to spout the 'STFs are endgame, non STF gear can't be as good' line when your reasons for doing so are tautological.


Not to mention y'all are stuck on "STFs are endgame" when what you actually mean is "Borg is Endgame"- If y'all want STFs to be endgame, make some ******n romulan/tholian STF missions.

Or don't, because the only reason we'd need those is so that you, Cryptic, can stop feeling like you have to make deliberately inferior gear.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 71
# 115
05-03-2013, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.
I agree with this completely. If the Romulan/Tholian stuff is not supposed to be "end game"
competitive, then they should be easier and/or faster to get. Ideally, I think all the reputation sets
should be equally good.
------------------------------------------------
Joined in March, 2011. Lifer since December, 2011.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 116
05-03-2013, 02:19 PM
Adding my voice to the choir, that it is the intended design for new reputation systems to be worse than Omega rep is bizzare. It explains why the Romulan/Reman sets are so horrible though. I guess that the Romulan weaponry was so good was just an accident because no one on the team thought about the ramifications of introducing Sci consoles that boost plasma weapons and thus give them an edge over other weapon times. (Which is also bizare).

I mean really?

All three reputation systems start at the same time and take the same amount of marks,time and comparable amount of commodities and other inputs to progress.
We can earn 4 times as many omega marks than any other kind by doing elite STFs. Which good players can blow through in 5 minutes a map. (And which are still fun after all this time, at least IMO).

OR

We invest 4 times as much time doing more complicated but boring (mostly because of the complete lack of difficulty) missions to earn inferior gear.

??????

There are times I'm forgetting all the old Cryptic mis-steps, when I play the new Romulan missions on tribble and I can just enjoy the game and be enthusiastic about its future.
But then there is always threads like this that completely and utterly baffle me. I'm at a loss for words.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 280
# 117
05-03-2013, 02:42 PM
Foreword: I don't want to be understood as just bashing, rude or in any way to be insulting. I hope to answer to this thread in order to give feedback and hope you can use my Point-of-view on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
Why is there no love for players who prefer cannons? Romulans have a Beam, Tholians get a beam. STF has no weapon beside the Torpedo, but Romulans have this too. Don't want to de-value Beams in any way, but if you wanted variation you should have had thrown in cannons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This is not STF-quality gear. I thought the inclusion of an EV suit as part of the set would've caused that to be a given. This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
Situational use of those EV Suits. Who runs around with EV suits other than on required missions and Nukara? And when I am done with Nukara - which I definetly am, I don't have any use for it since I already have my MACO Armor. So why should I even want to get this?

Hearing Tholian items being no STF quality gear in the eyes of the developers enlightens my whole approach to this reputation quite a lot. You are not realy advertising your product in a good light here.
1. Stating that you do not want it to be as good as endgame gear.
2. You still place this reputation at endgame only
3. Pricing the costs still as high as STF gear
4. Making Stats and items not appropriate in regards worth vs. costs
5. Making the Reputation Project costs higher than previous Rep Projects
6. Making the Reputation Project durations still as high as STF (endgame) durations

and most important:

8. Earning of Reputation marks so little and limited that the grind factor scala explodes.

Considering facts 1-8, is it still a fair set-up in the way you want it to promote?
In my eyes it is not nearly fair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Why escorts? Why weak? Details, if you don't mind.
It is completly set up as a defense deflector. But I am fine with it. We have that with STF gear too. The MACO Deflector is quite a defense deflector too. But again, why should I bother getting this one if I already have the MACO?
-> skip on this

Engines: we have these stats with already earned gear. Not really worth getting.
-> skip on this

Shield: again, a comparison shows it's bonus is in the game already. A radiation resistance is laughable. Where would this help me? The only NPC which used Radiation damage in Space is the Recluse Carrier and it is not nearly dangerous for me. I can stay in the aura and still perform without any risk. EPtS or TSS and I am negating the effect to minimum danger level. Therefore, I can have the bonus of the costly item at no cost.
-> skip on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
I have a complete Tetryon set up and I replaced it with a Plasma build. If I want Tetryon, I go and equip it and am done.

The refracting effect is utterly useless if you ask me. Sure, it is a new effect and perhaps makes it interesting design-wise but looking what it does for me is nothing in the end.

I have to get the 2.5% proc chance and then have again a so minimal chance that this unique effect will trigger. In addition I need at least another enemy who by chance is in the near area/radius of the targeted ship in order to apply.
In order to gain any benefit from this unique effect I rely on 3 luck / random factors. Let's be honest and answer the question: when and under which circumstances do we see those 3 factors in the game at the same place and time?...

Last edited by aegon1ice; 05-03-2013 at 02:53 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 307
# 118 About this Nukara stuff...
05-03-2013, 05:11 PM
The Pros::

-New reputation abilities! (Now to finish my first two Rep Systems....)

-Refracting Tetryon! (I've yet to see this make a meaningful benefit to my space combat, but hey, it's new.)

-New sets! (I'm glad to see increasing equipment diversity. Thank you. [Also thank you for removing a certain set from the Lobi store and putting it here. The compensation prize is also fair.])

-The new EV suits seem about as effective as regular old armor. (Either this or regular armor makes no noticeable difference in combat....[Regular armor = end-game vendor trash])

The Cons::

-No warp cores in the new space sets. (Me sad. Me like things that make me go.)

-All beams. (Where da cannons, yo?! No love for torps?)

-The visuals of the space set. (Nukara Impulse Engine = Borg visuals.)

The Downright Uglies:

-The Nukara Final Reputation Ability. (When activated, this monstrosity of an ability... um... doesn't actually do anything. [It's literally a three minute cooldown on nothing.])

-The ground Rep abilities. (It won't let me slot the testing devices, so... who knows, they could be terrible. I honestly have no idea at this point.)

-The rate of in-game Nukara Marks. (Or lack thereof.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Resurrect exploration in STO!

Last edited by inkrunner; 05-03-2013 at 05:21 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 119
05-03-2013, 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I'm going to echo this. In my opinion, the Reputation system should open up at level 45. After all, you don't need to be level 50 to do an STF on normal. Shouldn't you be able to earn the gear if you can play the content?

And while those levels may not be "endgame" they're close enough. The lower-end rep gear would be more than fine for that level of play, wouldn't it? The higher end stuff should be close to, if not equal to, STF gear.
45 isn't nearly early enough to have any meaningful impact at all.

There is no way to earn enough marks from 45 to 50 to both level up rep and have anything left over for meaningful gear.

30 might do something. Even then I don't really see how you'd be able to earn enough marks to tier up and buy gear before 50 with the way the game works. But that leads to needing to redesign the entire system, essentially.

It's endgame content, and should be treated as such. Putting equipment out there during endgame content and then saying "well, see its not actually supposed to be good" is indefensible.
--------------------------------------

"We are smart." - Grebnedlog

Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom

Last edited by tsurutafan01; 05-03-2013 at 05:31 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,706
# 120
05-03-2013, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav75 View Post
The rest of the Nukara Appropriated Munitions set consists of a Hyper-Dual Refracting Tetryon Beam Bank Mk XII and a Nukara Web Mine Launcher Mk XII. For me neither is worth acquiring: beam bank would force a change in energy type and the mine a change in tactics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
As for the various sets requiring you to do different things if you want the various bonuses, etc, etc, etc - it seems kind of straight forward. They're themed sets. They're not just mo' powah, mo' powah. By limiting them, you're doing the opportunity cost thing - rather than the oozing power creep thing...which is nifty, imho. Whether one is talking the New Rom, Omega, or Nukara stuff.

Might be a little off-topic, ahem, but the New Rom 2pc Harness bonus is a bonus to DEW/DEW DoT Plasma Damage when the 2 pieces could be the Array and Torp. Doesn't buff the Torp's DoT. Ahem, okay...just saying. Cause it's one thing with set stuff not working well with all non-set stuff, but the stuff within the set should work - no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav75 View Post
Refracting Tetryon weapons... the ones in the store were all with [Dmg]x2 making them not worth the 28k+ Dil price sticker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
Think this is good to point out...a little more...for the folks that may have unlocked any of the store weapons with the New Rom Rep and may not realize that.

That being said though, won't [Dmg]x2 kind of throw the testing off because of how it affects the Tet Proc?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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