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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
I expect there to be quite a bit of flame over what I'm about to propose (not at all my intent). So, before I even get on with this proposal, I will simply say this to those about to flame:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCLAIMER
The effect on Escorts that this proposal would have is MINIMAL. This is NOT an "OMG nerf Escorts" thread. The effect on Escorts is an afterthought at best.

Now that THAT'S done and over with, let's get down to business. This proposal, technically speaking, is a rip-off of another game. But then, STO's combat system already seems a touch like a Starfleet Command rehash, that's not too terrible. The game I'm ripping off is the Star Trek: Armada games. What I'm ripping from them is how crew works... well, kinda. I'm not ripping all of it, that would be brutal.

The current state of the game is that the amount of crew on your ship, and the amount of that crew that is "active" (the ones in white) affect your passive hull repair. However, this bonus is minimal, and continues to exist even after everyone on your crew is dead (apparently, we've got enough Borg tech to autonomously regenerate our ships). This means that crew is literally useless in this game. In the game I'm ripping off, crew levels mattered. How they mattered is what I'm stealing. If the crew on a ship in Armada dropped below a certain point, its display changed color (green to yellow to red). Whenever it changed color, you lost a pretty big percentage of that ship's rate of fire, as well as its natural repair rate. In short, crew was important. You always wanted it to be green.

My proposal is a modification of that. For the purpose of the demonstration, I will be using the three "free" VA ships (if you have the 600-day Veteran reward) - The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit (Crew: 1,000), the Long-Range Science Vessel Retrofit (Crew: 200), and the Tactical Escort Retrofit (Crew: 50). What I propose is that the rate of fire on a ship be INCREASED by an amount equal to a combination of Max Crew and Able Crew (Able Crew, of course, would be by percent). Effectively, all weapon cooldowns in the game would be doubled (including torpedoes) as a BASE NUMBER (before Crew). Then crew would be applied like so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by formula
Percent of Max Crew Able {B} [expressed as a decimal] * (Max Crew {A}/10) = Rate of Fire Bonus {F}

B * (A/10) = F
Allow me to demonstrate this formula at work with the Galaxy Retrofit at full crew:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy Full Crew
1.00 * (1000/10) = F
1.00* 100 = F
100 = F
So, you get +100% Rae of Fire if you have full crew on the Galaxy. Now, let's say they have 50% crew:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy Half Crew
0.5 * (1000/10) = F
0.5 * 100 = F
50 = F
Your bonus comes down because you lost crew. Now, let's try these same two on the Intrepid Retrofit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Full Crew
1.00 * (200/10) = F
1.00 * 20 = F
20 = F
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Half Crew
0.50 * (200/10) = F
0.50 * 20 = F
10 = F
So, the Intrepid fires more slowly. Now, let's see how the Defiant ranks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Full Crew
1.00 * (50/10) = F
1.00 * 5 = F
5 = F
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Half Crew
0.50 * (50/10) = F
0.50 * 5 = F
2.5 = F
The bonus has diminished quite a bit, now that the total crew has diminished. This is only really NOTICEABLE in torpedoes, it'll add an extra few seconds to each cooldown. It'll only put an extra second, maybe, between Cannon volleys. Also, most larger vessels will now be able to fire faster, while most Escorts will have to wait an extra half a second or so before firing the next shot. This may also have an effect on some Bridge Officer abilities, namely the Teams and the ever-forgotten Photonic Officer power. I see these as such:

All Team powers now have a debuff of -10 Able Crew for their durations, and cannot be activated if Able Crew is less than 10.

Photonic Officer: Alongside Cooldown reduction, this ability adds +75%/+150%/+225% Max Crew (and Able Crew, which cannot be disabled - extra crew becomes bottom) for the duration. Effectively, Photonic Officer would allow you to have more crew for a while, crew that would permanently be Able, but would still have a very long cooldown. The actual Crew bonus would be based on Aux power. I'm PRETTY sure that would make this power relevant again.

tl;dr: MORE CREW = MORE PEW PEW. Any questions?
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 2
03-26-2013, 07:35 PM
I only liked one part of your suggestion, and that is the part where Tactical/Engineer/Science Teams reduce your crew count with each use.

See, I don't think you've really considered this suggestion as carefully as you should have, are aware of the issues associated with the crew system, or some of the problems that make Federation cruisers ever-so-much the last place option.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
# 3
03-26-2013, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
I only liked one part of your suggestion, and that is the part where Tactical/Engineer/Science Teams reduce your crew count with each use.

See, I don't think you've really considered this suggestion as carefully as you should have, are aware of the issues associated with the crew system, or some of the problems that make Federation cruisers ever-so-much the last place option.
I came up with this idea a week ago. I've thought about it plenty, and I FLY a cruiser on 1 of my characters. One of my others is in a CARRIER. I know what their problems are. This won't solve them, but it's not supposed to. Not really. It's a minor buff, meant to fix the problem of crew being useless. The rest of it is just a bonus.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 4
03-26-2013, 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
I came up with this idea a week ago. I've thought about it plenty, and I FLY a cruiser on 1 of my characters. One of my others is in a CARRIER. I know what their problems are. This won't solve them, but it's not supposed to. Not really. It's a minor buff, meant to fix the problem of crew being useless. The rest of it is just a bonus.
Do you fly a Kar'Fi or a Dreadnought Carrier?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
# 5
03-26-2013, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
Do you fly a Kar'Fi or a Dreadnought Carrier?
Vo'quv, specced for disabling. I use all my Sci slots for power drain and stuff, my weapons are Phased Polaron, whilemy fighters do all the real talkin'.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 6
03-26-2013, 08:34 PM
If crew didn't die so easily...I'd want this in the game tomorrow. But until they ever fix crew rates, I don't want them to tack on more things to it.

Honestly, just removing crew from the game would be better in some ways, and ships based on a flat rate depending on the ship.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,651
# 7
03-26-2013, 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
If crew didn't die so easily...I'd want this in the game tomorrow. But until they ever fix crew rates, I don't want them to tack on more things to it.
This. Cruiser and Carrier crew die by an enemy looking at the ship funny, while Escort crews have a hard time staying dead. Part of the cause of this is that crew regenerates at the same rate regardless of crew size, so a smaller crew jumps back to full capacity more quickly.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 8
03-26-2013, 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
Vo'quv, specced for disabling. I use all my Sci slots for power drain and stuff, my weapons are Phased Polaron, whilemy fighters do all the real talkin'.
I think you have failed to grasp what I meant.

If your suggestion were to be implemented, Kar'Fis and Dreadnought Carriers would receive a firing rate bonus of 300% and 350%, respectively. Now put APO 3 and CRF2 on top of that, and perhaps a dual-proc energy type for good measure. Do I need to draw you a diagram, or give you some numbers?

Furthermore, I do not believe you are aware of how weapon firing rates work, or how this ties into weapon energy drain.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
# 9
03-26-2013, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
If crew didn't die so easily...I'd want this in the game tomorrow. But until they ever fix crew rates, I don't want them to tack on more things to it.

Honestly, just removing crew from the game would be better in some ways, and ships based on a flat rate depending on the ship.
Just incentive to take better care of your crew anyway. This is designed around this system. There ARE things in this game that make crew die less and come back faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
I think you have failed to grasp what I meant.

If your suggestion were to be implemented, Kar'Fis and Dreadnought Carriers would receive a firing rate bonus of 300% and 350%, respectively. Now put APO 3 and CRF2 on top of that, and perhaps a dual-proc energy type for good measure. Do I need to draw you a diagram, or give you some numbers?

Furthermore, I do not believe you are aware of how weapon firing rates work, or how this ties into weapon energy drain.
I know how ALL of that works, dude. I fly everything. I saw that 350% coming. On energy weapons, that will barely reduce anything because the base number is so small. Plus, you WOULD have to contend with power drain. I've spent hours thinking about this. The added power drain offsets the added firing rate enough that it's not terribly OP. And mind you, canon cruisers WERE built a bit as torpedo boats.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 10
03-26-2013, 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
Just incentive to take better care of your crew anyway. This is designed around this system. There ARE things in this game that make crew die less and come back faster.
Said things do not work properly. Emergency Force Fields do not have a visible impact on gameplay, while a Biofunction Monitor keeps your crew from actually dying (it'll still let 'em get injured, though).

Quote:
I know how ALL of that works, dude. I fly everything. I saw that 350% coming. On energy weapons, that will barely reduce anything because the base number is so small. Plus, you WOULD have to contend with power drain. I've spent hours thinking about this. The added power drain offsets the added firing rate enough that it's not terribly OP. And mind you, canon cruisers WERE built a bit as torpedo boats.
No, I don't believe you have actually considered everything.

I'm also not quite sure what you're hoping to accomplish here, either. Problems with Federation cruisers aren't solely related to DPS, and this suggestion won't address such issues.
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