Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7
# 1 HEC Armitage
03-29-2013, 06:35 AM
Hello

I recently bought Armitage from C-Store for my tactic alt, I'm wondering about how to build it.
First thing, I will NOT put DHC on it. Its breaking my immersion. So I'm planning to put Dual Beam Banks x3 + Torpedo (Photon probably, or maybe Tricobalt or Quntum? Plasma - hell no!) at front, and 3 turrets at back (Turrets i can accept, even if they are cannons, if i got beams up front :-P).
I;m in a pickle in terms of BOffs and DOffs, I have 0 exp flying escorts, i was flying cruisers before.
What sets of BOff powers would you recommendet? And will A2B build wit Tech DOffs on Armitage be better than more classic ones? Even so, what put on Tactical BOffs slots?

Any suggestions?

Best Regards
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 351
# 2
03-29-2013, 07:08 AM
DHC breaking immersion?

Have you looked at the front of your ship? Those are 4 cannon ports. Looks great when a quad cannon is firing out of them.

Escorts are made for cannons. Its that simple. Any thing else hurts your dps and thats what your there for to dps. So in short you hurt yourself and your team by going beams on that ship.

I for one went all cannon 3 dhc, 1 quad and 3 turrets with advanced pera or runabouts with a point defense system as well as the torp system. It worked very very well. The only issue is the wasted tac ensign boff.

Untill they fix beam power drain there just not worth it for any tac ship.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 546
# 3
03-29-2013, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelshando View Post
I for one went all cannon 3 dhc, 1 quad
Just curious, why only 1 Quad Cannon?

As for using beams on an escort, although I do agree with kelshando if you are only playing PVE and are NOT into Elite missions, etc... just build as you please and have fun. Just imo

Boffs should be weapon appropriate and also include Hazard emitters, EPTS, etc...
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 351
# 4
03-29-2013, 07:24 AM
It wont let me put more then 1 quad on.. other wise i would put 4 on lol. I really like the quads though.

On my andorian I run 1 wing, 1 quad, 3x dhc fleet andorain 2xacc / dmg x2, 1 turret fleet andorain 2acc/dmgx2 and a cutting beam. I have not used my HEC after I got the andorain.

Another thing I like about the quads is getting procs with them. they fire faster so higher chance to get procs and right now i have the Rep tier kenectic damage, plasma from embassy and the phaser proc.

So that 2 damage procs + a debuff proc chance on every hit. You get a ton of procs from the amount of hits you get.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 40
# 5
03-29-2013, 07:34 AM
The problem with a DBB/Turret build is it's hard to maximize Tactical slots. If you enhance your beams, your options are BO, which is a very poor over time DPS increase that only affects one beam, BFAW which doesn't affect your rear 3 turrets, or a cannon skill which won't affect your front three weapons.

If you're set on beams, consider a full beamscort, 6 BAs and one torp. You will do less than a full DHC/Turret build, but not as much as people think. There are advantages too. You can keep defense up by moving at full speed and still hitting with all weapons, and you can sit at 10k range and do very well due to beams damage not dropping off as much at range.

My Armitage is a beamscort. I've got other escorts I run as cannon builds. It's a survivable layout, although I'm an engineer and my captain powers fit well with beam builds.

An AtB build is not that good for a escort. Tac powers have such low CDs and you have so many slots, that there's almost no return on the build at the cost of taking up BO slots for AtB and killing Aux for your sci powers.

For your tac powers, I would go with 2 tactical teams and cycle them, 2 BFAW and cycle them when it's safe, as it's a decent multi-target attack and actually a pretty good single target DPS increase if there's one target. Finally two attack patterns, and then one torp power to wrap it up in the ensign slot. Such as:

TT1, BFAW2, APB2, APB3
TT1, BFAW2
TS1

I'd stick with this layout even if you did a 3 DBB/3 Turret mix.

I like APB since it works for the whole team and with 2 copies you have constant uptime of the debuff. You could also use APO1, APO3 instead that will increase speed, manuverability, defense, and get you out of defense killing tractors. Either way has it's benefits.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 6
03-29-2013, 07:43 AM
If you're going for a beam build, and you're not carrying both the omega 2-piece (omega weapon amplifier) and at least one Beam Overload, you're seriously handicapping yourself. Especially given that the HECs Boff seating isn't ideal for weapon power management without serious DOFF investment.
Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7
# 7
03-29-2013, 08:23 AM
Well, just on paper i added dps from info (rare mk ii, without +dmg) for 3 Dual beams + 3 Turrets and for 6 Beams, its
1101 for 3DB+3T
1092 for 6BA.
And its
1182 for 3DHC+3T. Just on paper, without buffs and skills, and weapon power consumption its only ~10% dps.

In future, one Cutting beam (and console from set too) will replace one turret, that was good point.

I understand, that there will be more drop to dps because of use of skills etc, but its not high enough drop IMO to not to play on beams even in elite STFs, if i just can't stand cannons. Maybe I'm wrong?

This "optimal BO" problem, with mixing DB and T is good point. Now I'm more leaning toward beam boat, it will add to my defense, as mentioned too.

So no need for A2B then, ok. What about Eng BO on escorts, is it wise to go EP2W * 2 for maximum uptime +RSP, or EP2S would be better choise? Or maybe DEM?

Like i said, i have no exp in flying escorts before.

Edit:
And what about DOffs?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 8
03-29-2013, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nazwawyswietlana View Post
Well, just on paper i added dps from info (rare mk ii, without +dmg) for 3 Dual beams + 3 Turrets and for 6 Beams, its
1101 for 3DB+3T
1092 for 6BA.
And its
1182 for 3DHC+3T. Just on paper, without buffs and skills, and weapon power consumption its only ~10% dps.
Taking face value DPS numbers when using beams (even DBBs) is overestimating their output. Compared to DHCs they're incredibly energy inefficient in the current power drain setup, and overlapping beam firing will drag your output down by a not insignificant number unless appropriate steps are taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nazwawyswietlana View Post
I understand, that there will be more drop to dps because of use of skills etc, but its not high enough drop IMO to not to play on beams even in elite STFs, if i just can't stand cannons. Maybe I'm wrong?
You're not. You more than likely won't put out as much destructive power as a cannon focused ship, but with the correct understanding about power level idiosyncracies, and the STF you're going into, you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nazwawyswietlana View Post
This "optimal BO" problem, with mixing DB and T is good point. Now I'm more leaning toward beam boat, it will add to my defense, as mentioned too.
Only against destructible torpedoes, which to be entirely honest are no real threat in STFs to anyone with half a brain. Against everything else you're just as prime a target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nazwawyswietlana View Post
So no need for A2B then, ok. What about Eng BO on escorts, is it wise to go EP2W * 2 for maximum uptime +RSP, or EP2S would be better choise? Or maybe DEM?
With only one Engineering Boff you would need to sacrifice a significant amount of survivability to maintain a cycling set of EPtW (if you don't use EPtX cooldown boffs, and even with three of those you'll run into lapses when you don't get the procs). To be brutally honest, the Patrol Escort/Steamrunner/Charal is a better choice for a beam setup by virtue of their boff seating.

You've got enough offensive firepower from your tac slots, what the HEC brings to the table is staying power. The only time I'd carry DEM is if I were running NI doffs on an Aux2Bat build, which the Armitage doesn't really support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nazwawyswietlana View Post
Edit:
And what about DOffs?
All depends on what you want to do. You've got the tac slots not to have to worry about Conn officers for TT, which opens up some interesting possibilities.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 351
# 9
03-29-2013, 08:40 AM
Are you taking into account power drain and range?

If your just looking at the dps and adding it up your not getting a true picture of damage out put.

Beams cycle 4 shots per beam attack each one draining power. running 125 power your going to drop to around 70 or so power buy the time your 2nd half of your pulse' from your beams. If you BO you will drop to the 40's.

While running all cannons I dont go below 100 power when fireing all weapons. Now granted my base power is greater then 125 due to skills and consoles. but with beams ill still go below 100 i have a assualt crusier refit i mess around with same consoles ill drop below 70 many times.

This is the why cannons do higher damage they are draining less power per shot and are hitting harder per shot so sustained damage is higher. This is before rapid fire (great for getting procs) or CVS are taken into acount.

Most beam boats doing good damage are investing a lot in epw + tac team. Also if your get with in 5k cannons really shine.

So to get your HEC to use beams you need to invest in skills like EPW + batterys to get the most out of those beams. Doing that you lose out on oher eng skills that you would use ot help keep you alive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 186
# 10
03-29-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nazwawyswietlana View Post
I will NOT put DHC on it. Its breaking my immersion.

How? The NX Enterprise had cannons, as did the Defiant. Cannons are canon.
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