Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 586
# 51
03-30-2013, 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
I have, actually.

For the first time, I've actually managed to score first in SB24, instead of just second or third. Speaking of which, I only started regularly scoring second or third after I refitted my cruiser with cannons/turrets.
this is not what I asked for... I asked you to use CSV as anti-spam. I know well that CSV is intended to be an attack ability to be used by attack ship.
The fact you want BFaW to be an attack ability alternative to CSV means only that you do not have understant the different role of cruisers/beams array and escorts/cannon.
If you want to deal damage, you have to fly attack ships, if you want to tank/heal you have to fly cruisers... You can't have a tanker/healer ship plus the damage of an escort as much as escort's captain can't have the power of an escort and the tank/healing capacity of a cruiser...


Quote:
Not so little an arc, because the CSV gives your firing arc a pseudo-extension. Combine it with cannon/turret, and it becomes irrelevant...
OMG... are you insinuating that CSV give cannons a better firing angle? what's the proof, the visual effect? lol


sorry man I do not want hurting you, but I think you are just one who fly cruisers because he can't survive with escort instead of asking for advise and try to learn how better players can do what you can't. If you want to deal damage, fly escorts and if you do not know how to survive with escorts, ask for advise. There are a lot of player better than me that can explain how to fly escorts.
And if you want to fly a cruiser there are again a lot of player that can explain you how a cruiser can be really usefull and powerfull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
I don't know if it's been said here or not (I didn't care to read through some of the bigger text walls), but here goes.

Escorts and their abilities don't need a nerf. Cruisers and their abilities (such as beam array power drain) need a buff.
I do not think cruisers need a buff... If you play pvp you can see how a cruiser can be hard to destroy and how much it can help another ship. I simply belive that many player fly cruisers thinking to have the final ship: high survaival, high attack power... a sort of "god mode" that let you do everything on your own.

Last edited by eurialo; 03-30-2013 at 05:18 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,410
# 52
03-30-2013, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
I do not think cruisers need a buff... If you play pvp you can see how a cruiser can be hard to destroy and how much it can help another ship. I simply belive that many player fly cruisers thinking to have the final ship: high survaival, high attack power... a sort of "god mode" that let you do everything on your own.
My point is, people cry that cruisers are unbalanced vs escorts. So instead ruining escorts, do something about cruisers. However I do see many, many, many people who try to use cruisers as escorts, and obviously that is a big fail.

The main issue people have with cruisers is that alone they can't hurt you for their life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 53
03-30-2013, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
this is not what I asked for... I asked you to use CSV as anti-spam. I know well that CSV is intended to be an attack ability to be used by attack ship.
The fact you want BFaW to be an attack ability alternative to CSV means only that you do not have understant the different role of cruisers/beams array and escorts/cannon.
If you want to deal damage, you have to fly attack ships, if you want to tank/heal you have to fly cruisers... You can't have a tanker/healer ship plus the damage of an escort as much as escort's captain can't have the power of an escort and the tank/healing capacity of a cruiser...

OMG... are you insinuating that CSV give cannons a better firing angle? what's the proof, the visual effect? lol

sorry man I do not want hurting you, but I think you are just one who fly cruisers because he can't survive with escort instead of asking for advise and try to learn how better players can do what you can't. If you want to deal damage, fly escorts and if you do not know how to survive with escorts, ask for advise. There are a lot of player better than me that can explain how to fly escorts.
And if you want to fly a cruiser there are again a lot of player that can explain you how a cruiser can be really usefull and powerfull.
CSV is better at killing the pet spam, rather than simply just touching it and going away. 2-3 seconds under concentrated fire will end up popping multiple little ships, whereas even 10 seconds with Beam Fire At Will won't guarantee that they're all gone. I really hope you understand the simple logic of that. And yes, it really does provide something of a better firing angle. I would also like to add that the spread for the ability seems to work rather differently with cannons/turrets than it does for dc/dhc.

I know damn well how to fly a cruiser thank you very much. I think you need to try and fly a cruiser some time. As an Engineer. If you ever try exploring any other captain type outside of it, you'll realize just how limited your character is. And if you have actually tried flying a cruiser instead of accusing others of not knowing how to fly their vessels, you will realize just how stupid it is to take damage but not deal it. As for healing and support, it is a piss-boring and thankless job that sees you only stuck to PvP or the unwinnable scenario. Speccing for that task specifically is not an option.

That's all I have to say on the topic.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 586
# 54
03-30-2013, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
CSV is better at killing the pet spam, rather than simply just touching it and going away. 2-3 seconds under concentrated fire will end up popping multiple little ships
except pets have to be in front of you... and that is why CSV is not an anti-spam.

Quote:
I know damn well how to fly a cruiser thank you very much. I think you need to try and fly a cruiser some time. As an Engineer.
I do... and as escort captain I can see what a good cruiser can do!
And yes, sometime flying a cruiser can be boring to me too, but that is not a good reason to do what you are asking for.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 55
03-30-2013, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
except pets have to be in front of you... and that is why CSV is not an anti-spam.

I do... and as escort captain I can see what a good cruiser can do!
And yes, sometime flying a cruiser can be boring to me too, but that is not a good reason to do what you are asking for.
I know I said that the last post would be my last...

Except that such a limitation is null when speaking of cannons and turrets. In which case, you are very very efficient at clearing spam of all sorts, while not being totally gimped against larger ships.

As a cruiser captain who has also flown a escort, I can tell you that cruisers are imbalanced because of their excessive focus on Engineering abilities, and that said Engineering capabilities in no way seriously justify their lack of mobility or near-complete lack of non-defensive capabilities. You can very easily build an escort to take damage: it certainly won't last until the crack of doom, but you're in a position where you can actually defeat an opponent before you die.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 33
# 56
03-30-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eraserfish View Post
I call for whatever the hell I think may be needed.

Anyways, it's not like my advice would be heeded.
tsk, tsk.

Why not ask for a buff? You know, just for a change of pace for once.

Do you ask your boss for a raise or do you ask him/her to take a pay cut?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
# 57
03-30-2013, 01:26 PM
I totally forgot that cannon related abilities are able to be trained to ensign slots... oh wait.
Welcome, accountlinksux.
You last visited: 12-31-1969 at 04:00 PM
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 336
# 58
03-30-2013, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs2965 View Post
tsk, tsk.

Why not ask for a buff? You know, just for a change of pace for once.

Do you ask your boss for a raise or do you ask him/her to take a pay cut?
I do ask for buffs quite often, and I meet with just as much scorn as this topic. Either that, or I get people posting their alternative views on how change should be implemented, or affirmations that don't really do anything. If anything, this topic has been far more productive in that it has attracted considerably more attention than otherwise. Challenging the status quo with a potential for loss seems to be far more effective than proposing a bevy of solutions that are unlikely to be heeded, because then it gets everyone involved. Including those that do not give a sot about cruisers, beam weaponry, and the like.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 615
# 59
03-30-2013, 07:18 PM
I may have missed a post mentioning this. I apologise if I have.

CSV2throws less DPS out than CRF1, although not by much, oh and it attracts a huge amount of attention in PvE (and PvP at times).

To the OP, you seem to want beams or skills involving beams to be as powerful or more so than an already powerful weapon and skill set that is made for a single reason. The whole point of cannons is to go teh pew pew and blow stuff up.
The whole point of an engineer is to make sure tacs in escorts doing teh pew pew dont go pop.

The fact that anything more than 5km away, CSV is pretty useless.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 179
# 60
03-30-2013, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seansamurai1 View Post
The fact that anything more than 5km away, CSV is pretty useless.
So much so that a good Beam Fire at Will will do more damage.

The only reason Scatter Volley does more damage in the first place is because Dual Heavy Cannons do that much more damage than Beam Arrays baseline and that it's less likely to 'waste' shots on targets that are immune/immediately heal up any and all damage.
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