Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,064
# 11
03-31-2013, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by radaikofromulus View Post
They aren't even BoPs they're called Warbirds now. a Warbird is a type of heavy cruiser. A BoP is a light escort/heavy scout ship. I'm not sure why the category and type of ships have been mixed and mashed. Also haven't seen either a Romulan science ship, nor a Romulan scout ship in STO yet.
Warbird is now its own unique type of ship, with some that lean towards escort, science and cruiser roles, at least according to this:

Quote:
Q: (felderburg) Will basic Romulan ships have the three standard variant, escort, cruiser, science?

Dstahl: Romulans have their own unique ship class, Warbirds, which is the first new ship class in STO. This new class uses singularity cores instead of warp cores and introduces new ship combat powers tied to the harnessed energy released by the singularity core.

Max-level Romulan Republic captains will find a nice variety of Warbirds that each gravitate towards a specific type of existing ship class and play style. There will be some Warbirds that lean towards existing classes (escort, cruiser, science, etc.) that players are familiar with, though they will all feel distinct in that they are from the new Warbird class.
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?tag=sto-news
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U.S.S. Endeavour NCC-91771 - Nebula-class
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Leave nothing unattempted" - James Cook

Last edited by amosov78; 03-31-2013 at 07:53 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 12
03-31-2013, 08:03 AM
It would be interesting to see what that actually means, but it could be cool to see a mechanic like that for the Omega Plasma Torpedo used on a larger scale.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 13
03-31-2013, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
Considering that they're even using such an obscure name, it strikes me that they are doing more than "simple" research.
Just inputting the word "T'Liss" into Google yields the Memory Beta page for the T'Liss class Bird-of-Prey, which is apparently the ship type that the Romulan drone ship was based off of. Considering the sparsity of that page in particular, if the STO designers wanted any more information, they'd have to actually parse through the novel. Whether they did or not is unknown, but it's a safe bet they found out as much as they could before asking to use the name.
I don't see the issue in taking the name, which was never even seen or mentioned on-screen mind you, and using it for their own purposes. And considering the time disparity (the drone ship was from Enterprise-era), it could be that this new T'Liss is an updated version of a venerable older starship design.
You know dude, doesn't take much to actually think of another name than spitting on that author who used the name in the first place.

No different than Cryptic picking and choosing what they like. That is why many Star Trek fans never played STO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
Honestly, I have no problem with this development whatsoever, and I think fans that have their ears too close to canon are taking this way too seriously.
Personally, I always found the fact that both the Klingons and the Romulans have starship types called "Bird-of-Prey" somewhat confusing. Yes, I know why that was. That doesn't mean I didn't find it any less ridiculous (Romulan D-7 Battlecruiser anyone?). The fact that Cryptic seems to be taking steps now to address this is refreshing, and it helps cement the uniqueness of the Romulan ships overall.

And consider that now the ships are specifically called "Light Warbirds". Which does imply that these ships are, in fact, light hit-and-run style starships. They just also happen to be Romulan Warbirds.
Let the Klingons keep their "Birds-of-Prey". I'm fine with "Warbirds".
Hey lets bash Star Trek fans!

You know what man, it's not cool to make Bird of Prey exclusive for the Klingons when the Romulans were the first to have the name, I'll give you a clue, the name came from that Firebird paintjob on the Dorsal sides of the ships in TOS.

That and in Star Trek 3, the Klingon BoP was originally going to be a stolen Romulan BoP. (Personally, glad that never happened).



As for the Romulan D7's, what was explained made perfect sense that Romulan ships lacked power and traded Cloaking Devices for Klingon D7s, so their new Cloaking Devices could work at maximum potential.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 14
03-31-2013, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
You know dude, doesn't take much to actually think of another name than spitting on that author who used the name in the first place.

No different than Cryptic picking and choosing what they like. That is why many Star Trek fans never played STO.
You seem to be taking Cryptic's usage of the name as an affront to the author. This probably is not the case in the slightest, considering how Crytpic has to acquire permissions to use anything in STO that haven't explicitly appeared in the TV shows or the movies (excluding Star Trek XI).
And I fail to see how Cryptic (or CBS for that matter) being picky about what gets introduced into their game, in whatever fashion and time frame, is a bad thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Hey lets bash Star Trek fans!

You know what man, it's not cool to make Bird of Prey exclusive for the Klingons when the Romulans were the first to have the name, I'll give you a clue, the name came from that Firebird paintjob on the Dorsal sides of the ships in TOS.

That and in Star Trek 3, the Klingon BoP was originally going to be a stolen Romulan BoP. (Personally, glad that never happened).

As for the Romulan D7's, what was explained made perfect sense that Romulan ships lacked power and traded Cloaking Devices for Klingon D7s, so their new Cloaking Devices could work at maximum potential.
I'm not even bashing Star Trek fans, considering I'm one myself. I'm admonishing Star Trek fans who take their interpretation of canon a smidge too seriously.
And I'm well aware of the reason they came up with for the TV show as to why the Romulans had Klingon D-7 battlecruisers. I even said I was aware. I'm also aware of the production-side of things, why the show's producers had to use a Klingon ship, because that decision is why they came up with the in-continuity explanation in the first place.
I even stated that I already knew these reasons, and still found it ridiculous.
Besides, while the Klingons may have gotten the ship designation "Bird-of-Prey" from the Romulans, the Klingons made them much more iconic than the Romulans ever did. When people think "Bird-of-Prey", they most likely jump right to picturing a Klingon one.
Warbirds are the ships that people associate most with the Romulans, since Romulan Warbirds had more on-screen appearances than any Romulan Bird-of-Prey ever did.
I stand by my previous assessments.
Formerly GT-01. Runnin' a small lite-RP casual fleet called "The Voyagers"! Message me in-game at either Salen@GT01 or Xavok@GT01 if yer interested.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 106
# 15
03-31-2013, 02:52 PM
Honestly, I have no problem with this development whatsoever, and I think fans that have their ears too close to canon are taking this way too seriously.
Personally, I always found the fact that both the Klingons and the Romulans have starship types called "Bird-of-Prey" somewhat confusing. Yes, I know why that was. That doesn't mean I didn't find it any less ridiculous (Romulan D-7 Battlecruiser anyone?). The fact that Cryptic seems to be taking steps now to address this is refreshing, and it helps cement the uniqueness of the Romulan ships overall.
And consider that now the ships are specifically called "Light Warbirds". Which does imply that these ships are, in fact, light hit-and-run style starships. They just also happen to be Romulan Warbirds.
Let the Klingons keep their "Birds-of-Prey". I'm fine with "Warbirds".[/quote]


You misunderstand me. Warbird is the only thing 'canon' that I was thinking about here. It's not a matter of this class or another. The human mind identifies hierarchically. We see something that belongs in a category, gets a type and finally a classification. A Warbird is analogous to a heavy cruiser. You wouldn't call a frigate or gunboat a light or medium cruiser. Neither are cruisers, they're too small and they don't surve the correct purpose. You wouldn't call every ship in the USN a battleship. You wouldn't call a Klingon BoP, a 50-80 manned ship with a light hull and medium powered weapons, a battle cruiser.

Just because you have two different BoP variants or thirty Warbird variants, doesn't mean you separate them by type, they are already of the same type. You change the class. D'Deridex class Warbird, Valdore class Warbird. They are both heavy cruisers and fulfill the same role in the fleet. The difference is that the Valdore class is newer, faster, more maneuverable and more advanced. The class tells us which variation a ship fits within a ship type.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 106
# 16
03-31-2013, 03:02 PM
I'm not even bashing Star Trek fans, considering I'm one myself. I'm admonishing Star Trek fans who take their interpretation of canon a smidge too seriously.
And I'm well aware of the reason they came up with for the TV show as to why the Romulans had Klingon D-7 battlecruisers. I even said I was aware. I'm also aware of the production-side of things, why the show's producers had to use a Klingon ship, because that decision is why they came up with the in-continuity explanation in the first place.
I even stated that I already knew these reasons, and still found it ridiculous.
Besides, while the Klingons may have gotten the ship designation "Bird-of-Prey" from the Romulans, the Klingons made them much more iconic than the Romulans ever did. When people think "Bird-of-Prey", they most likely jump right to picturing a Klingon one.
Warbirds are the ships that people associate most with the Romulans, since Romulan Warbirds had more on-screen appearances than any Romulan Bird-of-Prey ever did.
I stand by my previous assessments.[/quote]


You're right about the Klingons making the BoP an iconic name and the same about the Romulans and warbirds. That's how it was such a glaring oversight in ST:2009 when they called the Klingon ships warbirds. I think it is because Klingons are commonly seen in the BoP. They Klingon military is composed of individuals loyal to a family banner almost as much as the flag of the empire itself. The Romulans were much less likely to appear in a strike ship/corvette. I think they attempted to avoid this confusion in TNG by simply referring to their smaller ships simply as Romulan scout ships.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 17
04-01-2013, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
You seem to be taking Cryptic's usage of the name as an affront to the author. This probably is not the case in the slightest, considering how Crytpic has to acquire permissions to use anything in STO that haven't explicitly appeared in the TV shows or the movies (excluding Star Trek XI).

And I fail to see how Cryptic (or CBS for that matter) being picky about what gets introduced into their game, in whatever fashion and time frame, is a bad thing.
Not saying they are being picky, but again they could've looked up that name and say "oh it's refering to the Drone ship, let's find another name". But instead its more like "oh this name looks good, lets use it".

Then changing the classic BoP into a Warbird, "because of gameplay reasons".

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
I'm not even bashing Star Trek fans, considering I'm one myself. I'm admonishing Star Trek fans who take their interpretation of canon a smidge too seriously.
Sorry, I offend people for being "serious", but I'm a person who deals with accuracy and not going to just stand idly by while Cryptic alters canon or novel canon at their whim.

As I said, T'Liss was used in the novels for the Romulan Drone ship, if they decided to add the Drone ship (which is called a Warbird) and called it the T'Liss then I wouldn't have an issue. But instead they used it for the name of the Romulan Bird-of-Prey and turned it into a Warbird (which it is not).



Do the right thing Cryptic, change the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
I even stated that I already knew these reasons, and still found it ridiculous.
Besides, while the Klingons may have gotten the ship designation "Bird-of-Prey" from the Romulans, the Klingons made them much more iconic than the Romulans ever did. When people think "Bird-of-Prey", they most likely jump right to picturing a Klingon one.
Warbirds are the ships that people associate most with the Romulans, since Romulan Warbirds had more on-screen appearances than any Romulan Bird-of-Prey ever did.
Look, its canon that Romulans used Bird of Preys, and we can't stick fingers in our ears in pretending they don't exist. Even if Klingons made them more popular.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,017
# 18
04-01-2013, 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by radaikofromulus View Post
Honestly, I have no problem with this development whatsoever, and I think fans that have their ears too close to canon are taking this way too seriously.
Personally, I always found the fact that both the Klingons and the Romulans have starship types called "Bird-of-Prey" somewhat confusing. Yes, I know why that was. That doesn't mean I didn't find it any less ridiculous (Romulan D-7 Battlecruiser anyone?). The fact that Cryptic seems to be taking steps now to address this is refreshing, and it helps cement the uniqueness of the Romulan ships overall.
And consider that now the ships are specifically called "Light Warbirds". Which does imply that these ships are, in fact, light hit-and-run style starships. They just also happen to be Romulan Warbirds.
Let the Klingons keep their "Birds-of-Prey". I'm fine with "Warbirds".[/QU0TE]

You misunderstand me. Warbird is the only thing 'canon' that I was thinking about here. It's not a matter of this class or another. The human mind identifies hierarchically. We see something that belongs in a category, gets a type and finally a classification. A Warbird is analogous to a heavy cruiser. You wouldn't call a frigate or gunboat a light or medium cruiser. Neither are cruisers, they're too small and they don't surve the correct purpose. You wouldn't call every ship in the USN a battleship. You wouldn't call a Klingon BoP, a 50-80 manned ship with a light hull and medium powered weapons, a battle cruiser.

Just because you have two different BoP variants or thirty Warbird variants, doesn't mean you separate them by type, they are already of the same type. You change the class. D'Deridex class Warbird, Valdore class Warbird. They are both heavy cruisers and fulfill the same role in the fleet. The difference is that the Valdore class is newer, faster, more maneuverable and more advanced. The class tells us which variation a ship fits within a ship type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radaikofromulus View Post
I'm not even bashing Star Trek fans, considering I'm one myself. I'm admonishing Star Trek fans who take their interpretation of canon a smidge too seriously.
And I'm well aware of the reason they came up with for the TV show as to why the Romulans had Klingon D-7 battlecruisers. I even said I was aware. I'm also aware of the production-side of things, why the show's producers had to use a Klingon ship, because that decision is why they came up with the in-continuity explanation in the first place.
I even stated that I already knew these reasons, and still found it ridiculous.
Besides, while the Klingons may have gotten the ship designation "Bird-of-Prey" from the Romulans, the Klingons made them much more iconic than the Romulans ever did. When people think "Bird-of-Prey", they most likely jump right to picturing a Klingon one.
Warbirds are the ships that people associate most with the Romulans, since Romulan Warbirds had more on-screen appearances than any Romulan Bird-of-Prey ever did.
I stand by my previous assessments.[/QU0TE]


You're right about the Klingons making the BoP an iconic name and the same about the Romulans and warbirds. That's how it was such a glaring oversight in ST:2009 when they called the Klingon ships warbirds. I think it is because Klingons are commonly seen in the BoP. They Klingon military is composed of individuals loyal to a family banner almost as much as the flag of the empire itself. The Romulans were much less likely to appear in a strike ship/corvette. I think they attempted to avoid this confusion in TNG by simply referring to their smaller ships simply as Romulan scout ships.
You might want to fix your quote tags.

Edit: They almost made my post look bad, too... so I made some typos on purpose.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I don't pretend to understand them.

Last edited by dalolorn; 04-01-2013 at 02:42 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 854
# 19
04-02-2013, 06:37 PM
Warbirds have their new models, I think the Mogai have new models, and BOPs have a new name "T'Varo"

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/T%27varo_class
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